A-S--ap k` Fs kz]v\w: ]m jn_p s\Sp-th-en
Author: Pr. Shibu Neduvelil
Category: Editorial Beat
Publish Date: Dec 8, 2011
Views: 47106
Disciplined Church - My Dream: Pastor Shibu Neduvelil.
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Displaying 68 Comments
The views and opinions expressed in the comment section are strictly those of the comment authors alone and do not necessarily reflect and represent the views and opinions of Believer's Journal.
rinil antony (December 28, 2012)
achadakkamulla sabha ethuvareyum kandittille, dhivathodu kooduthal aduthuchennu prathikkukka. appol dhaivam sathya sabha kannichu tharum. sathyathe angikarikkukka. god may bless you
achadakkamulla sabha ethuvareyum kandittille, dhivathodu kooduthal aduthuchennu prathikkukka. appol dhaivam sathya sabha kannichu tharum. sathyathe angikarikkukka. god may bless you
+3
hubrist (September 20, 2012)
swargathil valla sthanavum venno?, arkariyam ? vendayirikkum ee pooke kanditte?
swargathil valla sthanavum venno?, arkariyam ? vendayirikkum ee pooke kanditte?
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a. s. mathew (January 3, 2012)
brother joy chembakkaseril: thank you for your response. brother sudhakar was a great speaker-a strong brethren believer-never offended another believer. he preached only in english, and whenever he was in our area years back, my dad used to translate for him. i have spent hours with him, very interesting personality. recently while i read some of the books touching the life of mother teresa, also in billy graham's autobiography, we can see a new picture of the former indian political leaders. those people who happened to study in christian colleges (wilson college-madras christian college-st stephen's etc etc), also in england had some great influence of jesus christ in their lives; and they had great respect for the foreign missionaries in india like c. f. andrews-william carey- etc. denominations can't change anybody, but only jesus christ, so we all must work double-hard to show jesus christ to other people.
brother joy chembakkaseril: thank you for your response. brother sudhakar was a great speaker-a strong brethren believer-never offended another believer. he preached only in english, and whenever he was in our area years back, my dad used to translate for him. i have spent hours with him, very interesting personality. recently while i read some of the books touching the life of mother teresa, also in billy graham's autobiography, we can see a new picture of the former indian political leaders. those people who happened to study in christian colleges (wilson college-madras christian college-st stephen's etc etc), also in england had some great influence of jesus christ in their lives; and they had great respect for the foreign missionaries in india like c. f. andrews-william carey- etc. denominations can't change anybody, but only jesus christ, so we all must work double-hard to show jesus christ to other people.
+3
shibu koduveli (January 2, 2012)
Thank @a s mathew and @joy chempakasseril. You have helped me out of this vivaadham. ho ho ho (santa Clause Style)
Thank @a s mathew and @joy chempakasseril. You have helped me out of this vivaadham. ho ho ho (santa Clause Style)
+3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 28, 2011)
to a s mathew- dr sarvapalli radhakrishnan's brain is given for research studies in one of the universities. i think its in harvard university, either harvard[london] or oxford or madras university. dr sarvapalli radhakrishnan, dr rajendran prasad and mahatma gandhi were all highly respectful of christian religion. i think they clearly studied and knew about it, but that their status and their social set ups,i guess,even though one shouldn't look at all of those prevented them from ----- ???
to a s mathew- dr sarvapalli radhakrishnan's brain is given for research studies in one of the universities. i think its in harvard university, either harvard[london] or oxford or madras university. dr sarvapalli radhakrishnan, dr rajendran prasad and mahatma gandhi were all highly respectful of christian religion. i think they clearly studied and knew about it, but that their status and their social set ups,i guess,even though one shouldn't look at all of those prevented them from ----- ???
+3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 26, 2011)
to a s mathew- contd 1- dr rajendra prasad in spite of his busy schedules was very patiently listening to my uncle "the gospel", smilingly, which i heard from my uncle latter on.
cha cha nehru was a good writer and was known for his literary works. he was a politician and had a charisma as a leader and prime minister but never was of the caliber of the two presidents!
paul sudhakar, the one you mentioned as dr radhakrishnan's son's friend was my neighbor at trivandrum. i have heard about him as he was an evangelist and a speaker but never really had a chance to meet him personally. he was much older to me too ! by the by merry christmas and a prosperous happy new year !
to a s mathew- contd 1- dr rajendra prasad in spite of his busy schedules was very patiently listening to my uncle "the gospel", smilingly, which i heard from my uncle latter on.
cha cha nehru was a good writer and was known for his literary works. he was a politician and had a charisma as a leader and prime minister but never was of the caliber of the two presidents!
paul sudhakar, the one you mentioned as dr radhakrishnan's son's friend was my neighbor at trivandrum. i have heard about him as he was an evangelist and a speaker but never really had a chance to meet him personally. he was much older to me too ! by the by merry christmas and a prosperous happy new year !
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joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 26, 2011)
to a s mathew- dr. sarvapalle radhakrishnan was one of my favorite presidents and so is dr. rajendra prasad, the difference between the both of them to me was, i wasn't born when dr. rajendra prasad was the president, but i have heard and read about him. i wrote a comment about both of them in a canadian news paper, you will find that in www.webmalayalee.com ! they both were scholarly-leaders and were chosen to become presidents not because of their political might, but were high intellectuals and were valued very much by the politicians. they both were prolific readers and as a matter of fact their expanse of knowledge was very high,even at times the then prime minister of india jawaharilal nehru whom we call cha cha nehru found difficult to cope-up with !they both were very considerate of other religions. my uncle was in the personnel staff of the first president dr rajendra prasad and he had an opportunity to speak the gospel the president.------ contd 1
to a s mathew- dr. sarvapalle radhakrishnan was one of my favorite presidents and so is dr. rajendra prasad, the difference between the both of them to me was, i wasn't born when dr. rajendra prasad was the president, but i have heard and read about him. i wrote a comment about both of them in a canadian news paper, you will find that in www.webmalayalee.com ! they both were scholarly-leaders and were chosen to become presidents not because of their political might, but were high intellectuals and were valued very much by the politicians. they both were prolific readers and as a matter of fact their expanse of knowledge was very high,even at times the then prime minister of india jawaharilal nehru whom we call cha cha nehru found difficult to cope-up with !they both were very considerate of other religions. my uncle was in the personnel staff of the first president dr rajendra prasad and he had an opportunity to speak the gospel the president.------ contd 1
+3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 25, 2011)
@ Kunjachen- correction, I meant to say , atleast I tried to say without your name being dragged into it, ha ha ha ha ha-ho ho ho ho ho Merry Christmas, Santa Clauz style !!!!
@ Kunjachen- correction, I meant to say , atleast I tried to say without your name being dragged into it, ha ha ha ha ha-ho ho ho ho ho Merry Christmas, Santa Clauz style !!!!
+3
a. s. mathew (December 25, 2011)
Dr. S. Radhakrishan's (the 2nd President of India) family was a very strong Hindu family, but to get a better education, he was sent to the Madras Christian College. He became a great philosopher, became the Chancellor of the Univeristy, taught philosophy even In the Oxford University. When his son's friend Paul Sudhakar took him to visit him (Paul Sudhakar lived in Trivandrum, a great Christian speaker and was a member of the Brethren Church) and when brother Sudhakar told him that "you are my guru" then Dr. RadhaKrishan told him " There is only guru, he is JESUS. A few students from the American college in Madhura went to visit Dr. Radhakrishan during the Christmas time in Madras. Just before leaving, he told the students " this is Christmas season...let us sing some Christmas songs". The last song he sung was not a Christmas song, it was " when I survey the wondersous cross". She started crying while singing. Was he a true follower of Christ?
Dr. S. Radhakrishan's (the 2nd President of India) family was a very strong Hindu family, but to get a better education, he was sent to the Madras Christian College. He became a great philosopher, became the Chancellor of the Univeristy, taught philosophy even In the Oxford University. When his son's friend Paul Sudhakar took him to visit him (Paul Sudhakar lived in Trivandrum, a great Christian speaker and was a member of the Brethren Church) and when brother Sudhakar told him that "you are my guru" then Dr. RadhaKrishan told him " There is only guru, he is JESUS. A few students from the American college in Madhura went to visit Dr. Radhakrishan during the Christmas time in Madras. Just before leaving, he told the students " this is Christmas season...let us sing some Christmas songs". The last song he sung was not a Christmas song, it was " when I survey the wondersous cross". She started crying while singing. Was he a true follower of Christ?
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kunjachan (December 25, 2011)
The thief on the cross took blood baptism which is the real baptism with Jesus.(Without shedding of blood there is no remission Hebrews 9:22) Bible says about useful blood baptism (beheaded) in Revelation,20:4. But in this age of grace only, water baptism is accepted, as a gesture of GRACE. One who willingly act ignorant can't be helped even by God.
The thief on the cross took blood baptism which is the real baptism with Jesus.(Without shedding of blood there is no remission Hebrews 9:22) Bible says about useful blood baptism (beheaded) in Revelation,20:4. But in this age of grace only, water baptism is accepted, as a gesture of GRACE. One who willingly act ignorant can't be helped even by God.
+3
a. s. mathew (December 25, 2011)
alexander thomas, oh-tessy mathew, ca- kunjachan: my freinds, i have clearly stated that i am baptized, and according to the bible, i could find only the believers baptism. everything what jesus told us to do must be considered as a commandment and must be obeyed. we take the baptism due to our obedience to what jesus told us to do- to show the whole world our faith in christ and an open testimony in water. it must be done totally on the believer's convictions, not by any force. we can't force anybody to accept jesus christ as their lord and saviour. some denominations give greater importance to the number of baptisms conducted every month (mainly in the u.s.), and some denominations baptize the baptized believer again, in order to join their denominations. only jesus christ can wash away our sins and give us a new life; the thief at the cross had that experience and jesus told him that " you will be with me in paradise today". who baptized him?
alexander thomas, oh-tessy mathew, ca- kunjachan: my freinds, i have clearly stated that i am baptized, and according to the bible, i could find only the believers baptism. everything what jesus told us to do must be considered as a commandment and must be obeyed. we take the baptism due to our obedience to what jesus told us to do- to show the whole world our faith in christ and an open testimony in water. it must be done totally on the believer's convictions, not by any force. we can't force anybody to accept jesus christ as their lord and saviour. some denominations give greater importance to the number of baptisms conducted every month (mainly in the u.s.), and some denominations baptize the baptized believer again, in order to join their denominations. only jesus christ can wash away our sins and give us a new life; the thief at the cross had that experience and jesus told him that " you will be with me in paradise today". who baptized him?
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alexander thomas, oh. (December 24, 2011)
@ a s mathew: jesus never baptized anybody true, but isn't baptism a symbolism of jesus crucifixion ??? now not only that, jesus set a example about how one can proclaim his or net's acceptance of jesus crucifixion-- the baptism ! jesus went to jordan river and too baptism under john the baptist, now jesus doesn't need sanctification by baptism, but that he was setting an example for others to follow. now on top of that mr a s mathew, do you expect jesus to give baptism too, after taking all the burden on calvary cross ??? isn't baptism a symbolism of his suffering at the cross ??? now that's for you and your initiative weather to accept it or not ! god bless you !
@ a s mathew: jesus never baptized anybody true, but isn't baptism a symbolism of jesus crucifixion ??? now not only that, jesus set a example about how one can proclaim his or net's acceptance of jesus crucifixion-- the baptism ! jesus went to jordan river and too baptism under john the baptist, now jesus doesn't need sanctification by baptism, but that he was setting an example for others to follow. now on top of that mr a s mathew, do you expect jesus to give baptism too, after taking all the burden on calvary cross ??? isn't baptism a symbolism of his suffering at the cross ??? now that's for you and your initiative weather to accept it or not ! god bless you !
+3
tessy mathew, ca. (December 23, 2011)
@ a s mathew: there are three step process for a soul's sanctification. ----- (1) repent on your sins and accept - jesus as your savior, you are saved at that point (2) a visual proclamation accepting that jesus died on the calvary cross as a sacrifice for your sins ---- this is baptism (3) the filling of the holy spirit with the proof - speaking in tongues. now the first one - getting saved is a must for a soul to get sanctified and saved, the second one. - water baptism, is a requirement too, and if its not taken in the proper way, it needs to be re-taken again, the third one is also a necessity and it takes several hours or weeks or months or years of prayer, requesting god for that fulfillment of spirit and not everybody gets it and also its something that depends on god will, not everybody gets it. i think its clear now, for everybody !
@ a s mathew: there are three step process for a soul's sanctification. ----- (1) repent on your sins and accept - jesus as your savior, you are saved at that point (2) a visual proclamation accepting that jesus died on the calvary cross as a sacrifice for your sins ---- this is baptism (3) the filling of the holy spirit with the proof - speaking in tongues. now the first one - getting saved is a must for a soul to get sanctified and saved, the second one. - water baptism, is a requirement too, and if its not taken in the proper way, it needs to be re-taken again, the third one is also a necessity and it takes several hours or weeks or months or years of prayer, requesting god for that fulfillment of spirit and not everybody gets it and also its something that depends on god will, not everybody gets it. i think its clear now, for everybody !
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kunjachan (December 23, 2011)
Jesus declared 'He who believes and is baptized will be saved;but he who does not believe will be condemned'(Mark 16:16).In baptism one is wearing Christ(Gal.3:27)and joining in Him(Rom.6:3-)One who has sanctified by declaration of faith and accepting Jesus Christ as per Rom.10:9 has to wear Christ at once. This is the practice in Acts of apostles.It is the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. Baptism is for those who are sanctified and not to be sanctified(not for the remission of sins.But faith&baptism together make one the child of God).Jesus took water baptism from John Baptist to give mankind a model(1Pet.2:21) of water baptism which is decided by the Heaven as a grace instead of the real baptism Jesus took on the cross(Luke,12:50).The criminal accepted Jesus as king and baptised on the cross and took the real baptism. Child baptism is not of any use as baptism is not for sanctification. The plan of God in His grace for children is given in 1cori.7:14.
Jesus declared 'He who believes and is baptized will be saved;but he who does not believe will be condemned'(Mark 16:16).In baptism one is wearing Christ(Gal.3:27)and joining in Him(Rom.6:3-)One who has sanctified by declaration of faith and accepting Jesus Christ as per Rom.10:9 has to wear Christ at once. This is the practice in Acts of apostles.It is the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. Baptism is for those who are sanctified and not to be sanctified(not for the remission of sins.But faith&baptism together make one the child of God).Jesus took water baptism from John Baptist to give mankind a model(1Pet.2:21) of water baptism which is decided by the Heaven as a grace instead of the real baptism Jesus took on the cross(Luke,12:50).The criminal accepted Jesus as king and baptised on the cross and took the real baptism. Child baptism is not of any use as baptism is not for sanctification. The plan of God in His grace for children is given in 1cori.7:14.
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a. s. mathew (December 23, 2011)
brother joy chembakasseril: you didn't
do anything to offend me or any
misunderstanding at all. since there are
hundreds of such subjects to be covered
in the days ahead, that unimportant subject
must be closed like an old chapter.
even if i am trying to be extremely
cautious not to offend any of the readers through my open but critical
comments, a few or a majority may be
offended in certain measure. i request
all of them, please don't get offended,
i am simply speaking out my doubts about many traditions which may not be
biblical at all.
brother joy chembakasseril: you didn't
do anything to offend me or any
misunderstanding at all. since there are
hundreds of such subjects to be covered
in the days ahead, that unimportant subject
must be closed like an old chapter.
even if i am trying to be extremely
cautious not to offend any of the readers through my open but critical
comments, a few or a majority may be
offended in certain measure. i request
all of them, please don't get offended,
i am simply speaking out my doubts about many traditions which may not be
biblical at all.
+3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 23, 2011)
@ a s mathew-- i value your opinion and i still have faith in you !!! i sorry if i created any kind of displeasure in my narration of it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@ a s mathew-- i value your opinion and i still have faith in you !!! i sorry if i created any kind of displeasure in my narration of it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 23, 2011)
@ Kunjachen--------- ha ha ha Kunjachen, but I atleast tried to mention it with your name been dragged into it, am I not fair enough ! Ofcourse, it might be evident for a pearl digger, ha ha ha ha ha !
@ Kunjachen--------- ha ha ha Kunjachen, but I atleast tried to mention it with your name been dragged into it, am I not fair enough ! Ofcourse, it might be evident for a pearl digger, ha ha ha ha ha !
+3
a. s. mathew (December 23, 2011)
tessy mathew, ca: you have fairly and
squarely explained about the big subject "baptism". some denominations
give very high overemphasis to this
subject. jesus never baptized anybody,
but the disciples did. among the apostles, st. paul might have baptized less people than the rest, but he was
far ahead of other apostles in the
evangelization enterprise. one denomination in the u.s. with branches
around the world; the church of christ
believe that in order to reach heaven,
even christians transferring from another
denomination to church of christ must
be baptized again. some of the pentecostal denominations in india will
re-baptize the already baptized believers
(who took believers baptism in non-
pentecostal denomination) to guarantee
their entrance into heaven. i accepted
jesus christ as my saviour when i was 10
years old, and was baptized at 21. it is very sad that baptism i
tessy mathew, ca: you have fairly and
squarely explained about the big subject "baptism". some denominations
give very high overemphasis to this
subject. jesus never baptized anybody,
but the disciples did. among the apostles, st. paul might have baptized less people than the rest, but he was
far ahead of other apostles in the
evangelization enterprise. one denomination in the u.s. with branches
around the world; the church of christ
believe that in order to reach heaven,
even christians transferring from another
denomination to church of christ must
be baptized again. some of the pentecostal denominations in india will
re-baptize the already baptized believers
(who took believers baptism in non-
pentecostal denomination) to guarantee
their entrance into heaven. i accepted
jesus christ as my saviour when i was 10
years old, and was baptized at 21. it is very sad that baptism i
+3
kunjachan (December 23, 2011)
@Mr.Joy Chembakasseril USA. Thank you for your good will to correct my usage of 'hardly' created negative expression of what I tried to establish.
@Mr.Joy Chembakasseril USA. Thank you for your good will to correct my usage of 'hardly' created negative expression of what I tried to establish.
+3
tessy mathew, ca. (December 22, 2011)
@ truthteller,the whole matter comes into discussion when,they try to convince,what they doing is right and what we doing is wrong. a child could be given baptism everyday and the baby would be devoid of any possible sicknesses, but that is in no way a substitute for the baptism stated in the bible. ofcourse, baptism is not a requirement for being saved,-- when you accept jesus christ as your personnel saviour you are saved. but baptism is a commandment to follow by a repenting soul, as a visual proclamation that he/she accepts and aknowledges that jesus died on the calvary cross as a sacrifice for the sins of mankind. so therfore, if they sprinkle some water on a baby,that's not a baptism mentioned in the bible, because the baby is not able to recognize all of that as per required for a baptism. refer- mathew 18:3, children are accepted by god as the are like angels to god and that they don't need further sanctification at that stage. baptism should be taken by a recognizing soul !
@ truthteller,the whole matter comes into discussion when,they try to convince,what they doing is right and what we doing is wrong. a child could be given baptism everyday and the baby would be devoid of any possible sicknesses, but that is in no way a substitute for the baptism stated in the bible. ofcourse, baptism is not a requirement for being saved,-- when you accept jesus christ as your personnel saviour you are saved. but baptism is a commandment to follow by a repenting soul, as a visual proclamation that he/she accepts and aknowledges that jesus died on the calvary cross as a sacrifice for the sins of mankind. so therfore, if they sprinkle some water on a baby,that's not a baptism mentioned in the bible, because the baby is not able to recognize all of that as per required for a baptism. refer- mathew 18:3, children are accepted by god as the are like angels to god and that they don't need further sanctification at that stage. baptism should be taken by a recognizing soul !
+3
a. s. mathew (December 22, 2011)
brother joy chemakasseril; i am simply telling about the undercurrent and open trend, but none of them bother me at all. the bible says very openly that love will cover the multitudes of sins. if we all can love each other by overlooking the denominational sign boards, we can build a better world of peace; besides we can reach out more people to jesus christ. i am also putting a curtain to that subject.
brother joy chemakasseril; i am simply telling about the undercurrent and open trend, but none of them bother me at all. the bible says very openly that love will cover the multitudes of sins. if we all can love each other by overlooking the denominational sign boards, we can build a better world of peace; besides we can reach out more people to jesus christ. i am also putting a curtain to that subject.
+3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 22, 2011)
'Are we supposed to use ENGLISH in several different ways living at different parts of this planet or do we have have a different version somewhere else ' - Quoting the author of these line- some new generation theologians are hardly trying to break the apostolic traditions and to drive the church under the guidance of the spirit of the world- does the author mean to say that, the new generation theologians are not trying to break the apostolic faith- as that's what it means to me, or does he mean to say otherwise. If the author meant otherwise then, he need to construct a different version of English, to reflect what he means, and it would have to be something like this,' some theologians are trying very hard to break the apostolic tradition'.-- I also do not agree faith and Christianity has come to an end in Western world, who has the greater number of missionaries travelling around the world ? Why we blame others for not having a single soul added to our--
'Are we supposed to use ENGLISH in several different ways living at different parts of this planet or do we have have a different version somewhere else ' - Quoting the author of these line- some new generation theologians are hardly trying to break the apostolic traditions and to drive the church under the guidance of the spirit of the world- does the author mean to say that, the new generation theologians are not trying to break the apostolic faith- as that's what it means to me, or does he mean to say otherwise. If the author meant otherwise then, he need to construct a different version of English, to reflect what he means, and it would have to be something like this,' some theologians are trying very hard to break the apostolic tradition'.-- I also do not agree faith and Christianity has come to an end in Western world, who has the greater number of missionaries travelling around the world ? Why we blame others for not having a single soul added to our--
+3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 21, 2011)
to brother a s mathew- i already explained, about what i had been observing all these years, how they put up with each other, the christian factions ! when one would criticize the other for them being different in their worship practiceses, the other one would return their favor by addressing back in a rediculing way, because they have nothing else to say about the criticism been made on them ! i my opinion all of them played their part in not being respectful of each other. bro mathew this is a pretty big subject and i can even write a novel based on it, but i am cutting short !
to brother a s mathew- i already explained, about what i had been observing all these years, how they put up with each other, the christian factions ! when one would criticize the other for them being different in their worship practiceses, the other one would return their favor by addressing back in a rediculing way, because they have nothing else to say about the criticism been made on them ! i my opinion all of them played their part in not being respectful of each other. bro mathew this is a pretty big subject and i can even write a novel based on it, but i am cutting short !
+3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 21, 2011)
to thomas vemmelil- no no oh no, you are totally wrong on that, after writing that statement, i thought for a minute that you would respond in a similar way, and that's exactly what you did. but you are totally wrong on that assumption. i know several similar cases like that, non-educated theologians who make believers borred to death, and certainly its the patience of the believers that make them survive. in you inner self you really know what i am saying ! so my opinion is not at all based on any single instance, i was just showing an example and there are many many similar ones !
to thomas vemmelil- no no oh no, you are totally wrong on that, after writing that statement, i thought for a minute that you would respond in a similar way, and that's exactly what you did. but you are totally wrong on that assumption. i know several similar cases like that, non-educated theologians who make believers borred to death, and certainly its the patience of the believers that make them survive. in you inner self you really know what i am saying ! so my opinion is not at all based on any single instance, i was just showing an example and there are many many similar ones !
+3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 21, 2011)
Karthavee evarr parayunnathum, cheyuunnathum endhennu evarr ariyaykayaal-- Ethuu swayam parishoodhicchirunnoo Ethuu ezhutthumbool ? Aarrkkariyaam ! It still sound like the grumbling of a clergy loosing his audience !
Karthavee evarr parayunnathum, cheyuunnathum endhennu evarr ariyaykayaal-- Ethuu swayam parishoodhicchirunnoo Ethuu ezhutthumbool ? Aarrkkariyaam ! It still sound like the grumbling of a clergy loosing his audience !
+3
truthteller (December 21, 2011)
Take for ex. Baptism, you don't have to be baptized to be saved. You do it because the bible tells you to. Yes Born of Water and the spirit..most misused verse in the bible.
We look upon things from a spirit of condemnation, not from a spirit of forgiveness and inclusion.
Instead of advising other denominational brethren to get baptized when they understand what it is, we are trying to prove infant baptism wrong. What is wrong if the parents bring a baby and get him sprayed water in the name of God. Nothing. It does not benfit him any more than a baby dedication. It is also no substitute for adult baptism. When are we going to get this right?
Take for ex. Baptism, you don't have to be baptized to be saved. You do it because the bible tells you to. Yes Born of Water and the spirit..most misused verse in the bible.
We look upon things from a spirit of condemnation, not from a spirit of forgiveness and inclusion.
Instead of advising other denominational brethren to get baptized when they understand what it is, we are trying to prove infant baptism wrong. What is wrong if the parents bring a baby and get him sprayed water in the name of God. Nothing. It does not benfit him any more than a baby dedication. It is also no substitute for adult baptism. When are we going to get this right?
+3
truthteller (December 21, 2011)
mr kunjachan, you are saying fiath has collapsed in america and europe. faith will never collapse, people may have gone away from faith. having been with many true believers from both these places and having seen their faith, i have learned a lot and really learned what faith is all about. i heard a lot of 'speak' in kerala, but very few who expeience the faith, becoz most people are living in guilt. jesus has done it all, you cannot add anything to it by adhereing to any law. if jesus set you free, one should be truly free.you are forgiven of all sins including sins you will do tomorrow. that is not a license to sin, but you love god because he first loved you.
you don't have to wear white clothes,shave your mustache, read three chapters of the bible or for that matter go to church for salvation (i am not saying don't do those), but jesus has done it all. anyone who adds to it is telling people jesus could not save me completely, i have to do these other things too..
mr kunjachan, you are saying fiath has collapsed in america and europe. faith will never collapse, people may have gone away from faith. having been with many true believers from both these places and having seen their faith, i have learned a lot and really learned what faith is all about. i heard a lot of 'speak' in kerala, but very few who expeience the faith, becoz most people are living in guilt. jesus has done it all, you cannot add anything to it by adhereing to any law. if jesus set you free, one should be truly free.you are forgiven of all sins including sins you will do tomorrow. that is not a license to sin, but you love god because he first loved you.
you don't have to wear white clothes,shave your mustache, read three chapters of the bible or for that matter go to church for salvation (i am not saying don't do those), but jesus has done it all. anyone who adds to it is telling people jesus could not save me completely, i have to do these other things too..
+3
a. s. mathew (December 21, 2011)
BROTHER KUNJACHAN: What you have said is very true. Indian imports from
China is three times of the Indian
export to China. But, the Indian import from the U.S. is almost 100%
in the fast food business, also in the
Chrisian religious business. Who cares
for the fishermen Apostles today? The
U.S. apostles get divine revelations while flying their jet planes or riding in the Rolls Royce. And these great
revelations are immediately exported to
Indian religious importers, and they
will be marketing them as a
franchise business like the KFC. The
spiritually hungry believers will be
buying all these revelations while the
Bible get dusted at home.
BROTHER KUNJACHAN: What you have said is very true. Indian imports from
China is three times of the Indian
export to China. But, the Indian import from the U.S. is almost 100%
in the fast food business, also in the
Chrisian religious business. Who cares
for the fishermen Apostles today? The
U.S. apostles get divine revelations while flying their jet planes or riding in the Rolls Royce. And these great
revelations are immediately exported to
Indian religious importers, and they
will be marketing them as a
franchise business like the KFC. The
spiritually hungry believers will be
buying all these revelations while the
Bible get dusted at home.
+3
a. s. mathew (December 20, 2011)
Cond:-2
While waiting to catch a flight to
Delhi from Bagdogra airport in West Bengal, four of us of Kerala origin
prayed before the departure. While
I was praying, somebody put his hands
around my neck, he was a total stranger.
He spoke in Bengali and our friend who
is working in West Bengal translated for us. This total stranger was a
converted Hindu belongs to the Seventh
Day Adventist Church. While sweeping the floor, he saw us praying, so came to the conclusion that we were Christians. He brought three other
Christians working there and their joy
was beyond explanation, and we also felt
such a great joy to meet them. Entirely two denominations, but united
through the blood of Christ...what a
delightful time it was!
In the New Testament we are called to
be bridge builders, and not at all
wall builders.
Cond:-2
While waiting to catch a flight to
Delhi from Bagdogra airport in West Bengal, four of us of Kerala origin
prayed before the departure. While
I was praying, somebody put his hands
around my neck, he was a total stranger.
He spoke in Bengali and our friend who
is working in West Bengal translated for us. This total stranger was a
converted Hindu belongs to the Seventh
Day Adventist Church. While sweeping the floor, he saw us praying, so came to the conclusion that we were Christians. He brought three other
Christians working there and their joy
was beyond explanation, and we also felt
such a great joy to meet them. Entirely two denominations, but united
through the blood of Christ...what a
delightful time it was!
In the New Testament we are called to
be bridge builders, and not at all
wall builders.
+3
a. s. mathew (December 20, 2011)
brother joy chembakasseril: we address the hindus " hindu samudayam" the hindus may address the whole christian community as " christian samudayam". but, i have never heard from the mainline christian church believers, calling the pentecostal believers as " pentecost samudayam". i do agree with you that the mainline denominations have berated the pentecostal belivers, calling different names. we were marthomite, but when i was very young, our home was opened (perhaps the only home from the mainline christian churches in our area) to all pentecostal denominations and brethren church. it was due to the fact that we were worshipping the same jesus like they did. why i bring these topics to the comments column; it is simply to alert the conscience of all the believers belong to different denominations to demolish the citadels of man-made denominationalism and to exhort every believer to hold hands and to march for the kingdom of god.
contd:2
brother joy chembakasseril: we address the hindus " hindu samudayam" the hindus may address the whole christian community as " christian samudayam". but, i have never heard from the mainline christian church believers, calling the pentecostal believers as " pentecost samudayam". i do agree with you that the mainline denominations have berated the pentecostal belivers, calling different names. we were marthomite, but when i was very young, our home was opened (perhaps the only home from the mainline christian churches in our area) to all pentecostal denominations and brethren church. it was due to the fact that we were worshipping the same jesus like they did. why i bring these topics to the comments column; it is simply to alert the conscience of all the believers belong to different denominations to demolish the citadels of man-made denominationalism and to exhort every believer to hold hands and to march for the kingdom of god.
contd:2
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thomas vemmelil (December 20, 2011)
To Joy Chembakasseril:- The Bangalore incident could be an isolated one. I did not intend to generalize it with our subject matter. But whole of your theory seems to be based on your uncle's case which in fact is an isolated one and contradicts your premise.
To Joy Chembakasseril:- The Bangalore incident could be an isolated one. I did not intend to generalize it with our subject matter. But whole of your theory seems to be based on your uncle's case which in fact is an isolated one and contradicts your premise.
+3
kunjachan (December 20, 2011)
some new generation theologians are hardly trying to break the apostolic traditions and to drive the CHURCH under the guidance of the spirit of the world quoting from Americans and Europeans where the FAITH has totally collapsed. .'karthaave ivar parayunnathum cheyyunnathum enthennu ivar ariyaathathukondu ivarodu kshamikkaname 'ennu mathrom prarthikkunnu.
some new generation theologians are hardly trying to break the apostolic traditions and to drive the CHURCH under the guidance of the spirit of the world quoting from Americans and Europeans where the FAITH has totally collapsed. .'karthaave ivar parayunnathum cheyyunnathum enthennu ivar ariyaathathukondu ivarodu kshamikkaname 'ennu mathrom prarthikkunnu.
+3
he lives (December 20, 2011)
gundayism koody nirthiyarunnengil kollamayirunnu
gundayism koody nirthiyarunnengil kollamayirunnu
+3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 20, 2011)
to a s mathew- the word samudhaayam only means, the believers belonging to other denominations, other than the pentecostals! the reason why they are referred to as samudhaayakarrr is for conveineince sake,as there are lot of different factions in christian community and anybody other than pentecostals are not easily identified either and is in no way meant be disrespectful of them!!! on the contrary, i have seen the samudhaayakkar refering pentecostals as benthicoasts many a times and that too meant in a disrespectful way, pretending that, they don't know the real word. deliberately an attempt in making fun of them, the pentecostals, rather than calling them the-pentecostals, respectfully! majority of them who makes fun of the pentecostals does'nt even know the meaning of the word- pentecostal ! a good majority of this 'acchaayanmarr' who makes this jokes about pentecostals come from a category called koolipattaalam- all they know and seen in life is a li'quor bottle !!!
to a s mathew- the word samudhaayam only means, the believers belonging to other denominations, other than the pentecostals! the reason why they are referred to as samudhaayakarrr is for conveineince sake,as there are lot of different factions in christian community and anybody other than pentecostals are not easily identified either and is in no way meant be disrespectful of them!!! on the contrary, i have seen the samudhaayakkar refering pentecostals as benthicoasts many a times and that too meant in a disrespectful way, pretending that, they don't know the real word. deliberately an attempt in making fun of them, the pentecostals, rather than calling them the-pentecostals, respectfully! majority of them who makes fun of the pentecostals does'nt even know the meaning of the word- pentecostal ! a good majority of this 'acchaayanmarr' who makes this jokes about pentecostals come from a category called koolipattaalam- all they know and seen in life is a li'quor bottle !!!
+3
a. s. mathew (December 20, 2011)
TRUTHTELLER: Thank you for speaking out
about the Christmas issue. Even though
the Pentecostal headquarters and members all across the the U.S. and around the world celebrate Christmas,
but it is classified as a great sin
in Kerala by the old leadership due to
their hard-headed nature and to display
their authoritarian leadership.
How many such contradictory issues are
in each denomination, created by the
leadership? The believers are not
guided by the word of God but by the
word of man!
TRUTHTELLER: Thank you for speaking out
about the Christmas issue. Even though
the Pentecostal headquarters and members all across the the U.S. and around the world celebrate Christmas,
but it is classified as a great sin
in Kerala by the old leadership due to
their hard-headed nature and to display
their authoritarian leadership.
How many such contradictory issues are
in each denomination, created by the
leadership? The believers are not
guided by the word of God but by the
word of man!
+3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 20, 2011)
to truthteller- i agree with you hundred percent! who should celebrate christmas more than pentecostals! shhhh- i have even seen christians driving in circles around town,to get a good look at the depali lights, a hindu festival!
jesus is the reason for the season! merry christmas to everybody!!!!!!
to truthteller- i agree with you hundred percent! who should celebrate christmas more than pentecostals! shhhh- i have even seen christians driving in circles around town,to get a good look at the depali lights, a hindu festival!
jesus is the reason for the season! merry christmas to everybody!!!!!!
+3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 20, 2011)
Quote- 'Our Pentecostal forefathers where taught by the Holy Spirit and the new popular theologians are taught by the spirit of the world,to misguide'---this seems like the 'grumbling of a clergy loosing control on his audience'! Looks like somebody gripped with a fear of loosing the church.Who knows what our fore fathers did or how or where they got the knowledge from!One thing they contributed to spiritual world is 'lot of mis-interpretations' on Bible due to lack of proper academic theological training.The new popular theologians are popular because, its a far more educated society now and people are thinking based on the education they have!They treat nonsense as nonsense and garbage as garbage!When God created 'man' he granted man a gray-matter called Brain,which if properly applied will give us knowledge and wisdom.Today's men are using that God given gray-matter to attain wisdom and thereby they don't entertain any nonsense! They treat nonsense as nonsense, Halleluyaa
Quote- 'Our Pentecostal forefathers where taught by the Holy Spirit and the new popular theologians are taught by the spirit of the world,to misguide'---this seems like the 'grumbling of a clergy loosing control on his audience'! Looks like somebody gripped with a fear of loosing the church.Who knows what our fore fathers did or how or where they got the knowledge from!One thing they contributed to spiritual world is 'lot of mis-interpretations' on Bible due to lack of proper academic theological training.The new popular theologians are popular because, its a far more educated society now and people are thinking based on the education they have!They treat nonsense as nonsense and garbage as garbage!When God created 'man' he granted man a gray-matter called Brain,which if properly applied will give us knowledge and wisdom.Today's men are using that God given gray-matter to attain wisdom and thereby they don't entertain any nonsense! They treat nonsense as nonsense, Halleluyaa
+3
truthteller (December 19, 2011)
Dear brothers, I think we should agree on the essentials and allow room for the non essentials. For eg Christmas is one of the most joyful times for a lot of people, yes we like lights and the cake too. It is sad to see so many people trying hard to prove Christmas started as a pagan festival,(days of the week are named after imaginary gods)Christ was not born in December etc. All of this may be true, but he was born on a certain day, and if people celebrate his birth on Dec 25, is there anything wrong? NO. Does it matter to the creator of the universe ( a thousand years is like a day to him) what day mortals chose? No. Another argument is we should celebrate it everyday, ok, please do, recommend others to do the same, but don't argue adainst Christmas. It does not matter if one is doing this in the name of Jesus, it is good. Who should celebrate Christmas more than us Pentecostals? Merry Christmas to all of you Jesus is the reason for the season. Let his name be glorified forever
Dear brothers, I think we should agree on the essentials and allow room for the non essentials. For eg Christmas is one of the most joyful times for a lot of people, yes we like lights and the cake too. It is sad to see so many people trying hard to prove Christmas started as a pagan festival,(days of the week are named after imaginary gods)Christ was not born in December etc. All of this may be true, but he was born on a certain day, and if people celebrate his birth on Dec 25, is there anything wrong? NO. Does it matter to the creator of the universe ( a thousand years is like a day to him) what day mortals chose? No. Another argument is we should celebrate it everyday, ok, please do, recommend others to do the same, but don't argue adainst Christmas. It does not matter if one is doing this in the name of Jesus, it is good. Who should celebrate Christmas more than us Pentecostals? Merry Christmas to all of you Jesus is the reason for the season. Let his name be glorified forever
+3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 19, 2011)
to thomas vemmelil- 'bangalorril nadannathu oru ottapetta sambavam maatthram'. we shouldn't generalize our opinion based on any single or few incidents,but that our opinion should be based on the average of the incidents or performances. generally speaking, college education theologians speak or perform far better than the self made once and i have seen that in many many instances.sometimes things are said on the spur of the moment, which they are not supposed to, as they are handling god's-word, but sometimes, the emotions take over and they run into saying something to create a temporary impact, like i said before. this would be alright in politics, but now we are dealing god's-word. let me tell you this-- i had an uncle, whom i have heard him speak before going to bible college and after. the difference that made after the bible college education in florida, usa, was reflecting on his speech always, the speeches he was making before was very very boring, and it took lot of my
to thomas vemmelil- 'bangalorril nadannathu oru ottapetta sambavam maatthram'. we shouldn't generalize our opinion based on any single or few incidents,but that our opinion should be based on the average of the incidents or performances. generally speaking, college education theologians speak or perform far better than the self made once and i have seen that in many many instances.sometimes things are said on the spur of the moment, which they are not supposed to, as they are handling god's-word, but sometimes, the emotions take over and they run into saying something to create a temporary impact, like i said before. this would be alright in politics, but now we are dealing god's-word. let me tell you this-- i had an uncle, whom i have heard him speak before going to bible college and after. the difference that made after the bible college education in florida, usa, was reflecting on his speech always, the speeches he was making before was very very boring, and it took lot of my
+3
a. s. mathew (December 19, 2011)
brother joy chembakasseril: thank you for the open confession that the pentecostal believers think that they know more than other denominational believers; but truly speaking, they were blindly repeating the leader' sermons. they usually address the believers of other denominations as "samudayakar" in the book of mathew 5, jesus taught the audience through the beatitudes; how to live like a king in this world. also, touched about the fulfillment of the law-muder-adultery-divorce-the spirit of retaliation and finally about loving our enemies. in chapter 6, to the fake fasting public, he gave a direct warning; how to fast, also critcally touching the alms giving format of those days. to the prayer clarification question from the disciples, jesus clearly taught them, how to pray. probably, psalms 23 is the most repeated chapter in the bible by all christians, especially the pentecostals. is it a repetition? then, why the lord's prayer is totally ignored?
brother joy chembakasseril: thank you for the open confession that the pentecostal believers think that they know more than other denominational believers; but truly speaking, they were blindly repeating the leader' sermons. they usually address the believers of other denominations as "samudayakar" in the book of mathew 5, jesus taught the audience through the beatitudes; how to live like a king in this world. also, touched about the fulfillment of the law-muder-adultery-divorce-the spirit of retaliation and finally about loving our enemies. in chapter 6, to the fake fasting public, he gave a direct warning; how to fast, also critcally touching the alms giving format of those days. to the prayer clarification question from the disciples, jesus clearly taught them, how to pray. probably, psalms 23 is the most repeated chapter in the bible by all christians, especially the pentecostals. is it a repetition? then, why the lord's prayer is totally ignored?
+3
kunjachan (December 19, 2011)
Matthew,7:13,14 " Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that lead to destruction,and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it". These verses are important when we see population flowing behind some new theologians. Apostles and and our Pentecostal forefathers where taught by the Holy spirit and the new popular theologians are taught by the spirit of the world to misguide and fulfil the verse Matthew,24:24. So we have to be very careful to keep our 'BRIDESHIP'.(Also ref.IICori.ch.11.)
Matthew,7:13,14 " Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that lead to destruction,and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it". These verses are important when we see population flowing behind some new theologians. Apostles and and our Pentecostal forefathers where taught by the Holy spirit and the new popular theologians are taught by the spirit of the world to misguide and fulfil the verse Matthew,24:24. So we have to be very careful to keep our 'BRIDESHIP'.(Also ref.IICori.ch.11.)
+3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 18, 2011)
to a s mathew- prayer is a conversation to god! the reason why pentecostals do not do the lord's prayer is because- they,the pentecostals generally have a superior-feeling that,they known better or more than others! there is nothing wrong in adding or using lord's prayer in our prayers, but that the pentecostals do not do it because they think they can do without it! i am not saying that we have to do the lord's prayer every time when we do a prayer,because its not a real requirement for a prayer,but using the lord's prayer along with our prayer is not at all wrong! not only that saying the lord's prayer, just like we use praising words before the prayer helps as an impetus to galvanize our prayer to a higher level! just like i said before, prayer is a conversation to god, so how much sense it makes,if we recite the lord's prayer which we already memorized is left to your imagination.but saying the lord's prayer certainly also helps a few who are not well versed in doing it!
to a s mathew- prayer is a conversation to god! the reason why pentecostals do not do the lord's prayer is because- they,the pentecostals generally have a superior-feeling that,they known better or more than others! there is nothing wrong in adding or using lord's prayer in our prayers, but that the pentecostals do not do it because they think they can do without it! i am not saying that we have to do the lord's prayer every time when we do a prayer,because its not a real requirement for a prayer,but using the lord's prayer along with our prayer is not at all wrong! not only that saying the lord's prayer, just like we use praising words before the prayer helps as an impetus to galvanize our prayer to a higher level! just like i said before, prayer is a conversation to god, so how much sense it makes,if we recite the lord's prayer which we already memorized is left to your imagination.but saying the lord's prayer certainly also helps a few who are not well versed in doing it!
+3
thomas vemmelil (December 18, 2011)
yes, i do agree with you. very recently in bangalore i heard a pastor preaching about the "mustard seed" having grown to a great tree is now the global pentecostal movement!! see how great is his interpretation! incidentally this pastor is a highly educated man both academically and theologically and now pastoring in a leading ipc in bangalore.
yes, i do agree with you. very recently in bangalore i heard a pastor preaching about the "mustard seed" having grown to a great tree is now the global pentecostal movement!! see how great is his interpretation! incidentally this pastor is a highly educated man both academically and theologically and now pastoring in a leading ipc in bangalore.
+3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 17, 2011)
To thepraize- contd 1- that I came to a conclusion- that it is not what you wearing or not wearing or what you ate that morning that makes you pleasing to God but that the purity of your heart what is counted or valued! God BLESS !
To thepraize- contd 1- that I came to a conclusion- that it is not what you wearing or not wearing or what you ate that morning that makes you pleasing to God but that the purity of your heart what is counted or valued! God BLESS !
+3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 17, 2011)
to thepraize- thank you, thank you , thank you and thank you! they in some churches or denominations has been adhering to or clinging to something that was not very biblical in the true interpretations of it, but that now they have gotten so far and so long, how can they all all of a sudden admit what they said so far is not appropriately right ? so now that they cling on to it! -- let me tell you something that i experienceced when i went to north india several years ago- i was in a worship service in north india for the first time! the worship in the church was so good, that i could feel the real presence of god almighty, when i looked around i see people around me wearing expensive jewelry and petite clothing and they were all praising and worshipping, that i got so startled that i had to suspend my personal worship to see what is going on around me! this sight of people wearing jewelry and expensrive clothing and worshipping feeling the true presence of god was new to me - contd 1
to thepraize- thank you, thank you , thank you and thank you! they in some churches or denominations has been adhering to or clinging to something that was not very biblical in the true interpretations of it, but that now they have gotten so far and so long, how can they all all of a sudden admit what they said so far is not appropriately right ? so now that they cling on to it! -- let me tell you something that i experienceced when i went to north india several years ago- i was in a worship service in north india for the first time! the worship in the church was so good, that i could feel the real presence of god almighty, when i looked around i see people around me wearing expensive jewelry and petite clothing and they were all praising and worshipping, that i got so startled that i had to suspend my personal worship to see what is going on around me! this sight of people wearing jewelry and expensrive clothing and worshipping feeling the true presence of god was new to me - contd 1
+3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 17, 2011)
to thomas vemmelil- the mis-interpretation happens in two different ways- one is delibrately and the other one by sheer ignorance or incompetency due to lack of proper academic traning. i am not disputing the fact that there are certain theological institutions that teach students in a certain way and let me say that, if those teaching are not in accordance with the holy spirit and its based on a man-made wish and will, the wrath of our heavenly father is going to be on them, sooner or later. the bible clearly says that, if you add or substract on the word of god you are a cursed one. these students who are taught something differently, go to their own churches and institutions, i don't worry about that, because they are doing that delibrately, and they will pay a price for that one day. my concern is the inumerable number of self-proclaimed theologians who mis-lead the church with their mis-interpretations due to their incompetency by not having proper academic training!
to thomas vemmelil- the mis-interpretation happens in two different ways- one is delibrately and the other one by sheer ignorance or incompetency due to lack of proper academic traning. i am not disputing the fact that there are certain theological institutions that teach students in a certain way and let me say that, if those teaching are not in accordance with the holy spirit and its based on a man-made wish and will, the wrath of our heavenly father is going to be on them, sooner or later. the bible clearly says that, if you add or substract on the word of god you are a cursed one. these students who are taught something differently, go to their own churches and institutions, i don't worry about that, because they are doing that delibrately, and they will pay a price for that one day. my concern is the inumerable number of self-proclaimed theologians who mis-lead the church with their mis-interpretations due to their incompetency by not having proper academic training!
+3
a. s. mathew (December 16, 2011)
THEPRAIZE: Thank you so much for your kind words of appreciation. From the Catholics to the Pentecostal Church believers pray the Lord's prayer written in Mathew 6:9-13, but the Kerala Pentecostal leadership stopped the Lord's prayer years back. Why? We try our best to follow the advice and spiritual directions given by our parents, but we don't want to pray the prayer JESUS taught His disciples to pray!
THEPRAIZE: Thank you so much for your kind words of appreciation. From the Catholics to the Pentecostal Church believers pray the Lord's prayer written in Mathew 6:9-13, but the Kerala Pentecostal leadership stopped the Lord's prayer years back. Why? We try our best to follow the advice and spiritual directions given by our parents, but we don't want to pray the prayer JESUS taught His disciples to pray!
+3
shibu steven, bhopal, india. (December 16, 2011)
Bro Joy Chembakasseril, I had been reading, love your comments !
Bro Joy Chembakasseril, I had been reading, love your comments !
+3
a. s. mathew (December 15, 2011)
BROTHER JOY CHEMBAKASSERIL: That is very true. So many man-made interpretations have blindly influenced many believers, and they became solid religious traditions of the next generations. So gradually the word of God got less validity in the spiritual life.
BROTHER JOY CHEMBAKASSERIL: That is very true. So many man-made interpretations have blindly influenced many believers, and they became solid religious traditions of the next generations. So gradually the word of God got less validity in the spiritual life.
+3
thomas vemmelil (December 15, 2011)
To Joy Chembakasseril:- It is true to say that we have several self-made theologians than college educated theologians. But at the same time you also say that the Word of God is versus the word of man. What do you mean by college education? Are they teaching the word of man or the Word of God? The so called Theological Institutions of the day have made the whole mess up in today's Christianity. To my opinion the ultimate dependence for the truth will be of only on the interlinear bibles of Hebrew and Greek.
To Joy Chembakasseril:- It is true to say that we have several self-made theologians than college educated theologians. But at the same time you also say that the Word of God is versus the word of man. What do you mean by college education? Are they teaching the word of man or the Word of God? The so called Theological Institutions of the day have made the whole mess up in today's Christianity. To my opinion the ultimate dependence for the truth will be of only on the interlinear bibles of Hebrew and Greek.
+3
thepraize (December 15, 2011)
@ a. s. mathew & joy chembakasseril, usa,need to admit,you guys are phenomenal,you guys are just hitting the right spot in doctrines and leadership gaps.
An average intelligent person can understand the chaos prevelant in todays' holiest of the holy communities,yet what is appalling is,the support people extend to these farcical people and organisations.
I remember in my prior posts did mention on gold,seems like there is a deliberate effort to adhere to this teaching for reasons yet unclear,meanwhile,the growth of new generation churches have liberally encouraged people from all walks to freely know and worship the true God and souls are added to His Kingdom,each day,with the experience of physical nd spiritual healing.
On a different note with the inflow of all the so called leaders and fund collection activities,these churches remain where it was on day 1.This is something which i am not understanding.
Blessings !!!
@ a. s. mathew & joy chembakasseril, usa,need to admit,you guys are phenomenal,you guys are just hitting the right spot in doctrines and leadership gaps.
An average intelligent person can understand the chaos prevelant in todays' holiest of the holy communities,yet what is appalling is,the support people extend to these farcical people and organisations.
I remember in my prior posts did mention on gold,seems like there is a deliberate effort to adhere to this teaching for reasons yet unclear,meanwhile,the growth of new generation churches have liberally encouraged people from all walks to freely know and worship the true God and souls are added to His Kingdom,each day,with the experience of physical nd spiritual healing.
On a different note with the inflow of all the so called leaders and fund collection activities,these churches remain where it was on day 1.This is something which i am not understanding.
Blessings !!!
+3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 15, 2011)
to A S Mathew- We have been through lot of interpretations and mis-interpretations about several things in the Bible! The reason for most this mis-interpretations about Bible is because we had several self-made theologians than college educated theologians and they were allowed to propagate their theology on the stage by the church hierarchy! Now we have 'the-word-of-God' versus the 'the-word-of-man'! Now, today's 'believer' should exercise diligence in differentiating them! In other words don't swallow everything that comes your way, right away, devout few minutes in ascertaining what you heard! Many things on stage are said on the spur of the moment, to create an impact on what is been said and they don't have to be true or right, ofcourse it may create a temporary impact or a laughter!!!!!
to A S Mathew- We have been through lot of interpretations and mis-interpretations about several things in the Bible! The reason for most this mis-interpretations about Bible is because we had several self-made theologians than college educated theologians and they were allowed to propagate their theology on the stage by the church hierarchy! Now we have 'the-word-of-God' versus the 'the-word-of-man'! Now, today's 'believer' should exercise diligence in differentiating them! In other words don't swallow everything that comes your way, right away, devout few minutes in ascertaining what you heard! Many things on stage are said on the spur of the moment, to create an impact on what is been said and they don't have to be true or right, ofcourse it may create a temporary impact or a laughter!!!!!
+3
a. s. mathew (December 14, 2011)
BRO. JOY CHEMBAKASSERIL: How many small churches are in opration of the same Kerala denominations in the same city? Some of them have formed to create new employment and an easy green card for some relatives. Yet, some other congregations are formed for playing the leadership drama. There are over 240 Christian denominations in the U.S. It is quite surprising, how some of them were started for very minute doctrines-dress code, man-made sin and holiness. The other surprising paradox is the friction in between the denominations of exactly identical doctrines. JESUS said, love one another, but in reality, what is happening is just opposite in the name of GOD. The leadership of these denominations have brainwashed the believers, so they can't think for themselves, whether they are following the word of God or man's word.
BRO. JOY CHEMBAKASSERIL: How many small churches are in opration of the same Kerala denominations in the same city? Some of them have formed to create new employment and an easy green card for some relatives. Yet, some other congregations are formed for playing the leadership drama. There are over 240 Christian denominations in the U.S. It is quite surprising, how some of them were started for very minute doctrines-dress code, man-made sin and holiness. The other surprising paradox is the friction in between the denominations of exactly identical doctrines. JESUS said, love one another, but in reality, what is happening is just opposite in the name of GOD. The leadership of these denominations have brainwashed the believers, so they can't think for themselves, whether they are following the word of God or man's word.
+3
a. s. mathew (December 14, 2011)
Contd:-2
The constant pouring of appeals from the Church headquarters of India to the working people of the same denominations around the world for new projects in concrete and steel are creating a total confusion after reading the prayer of Mother Teresa! Do we have two different Gods? How, God took care of Mother Teresa's prayer and needs? She had two pair of "khadhi" sarees-ate very modestly and every dollar was invested to feed the hungry and give hope to the hopeless. But on the other hand, the Church leadershp people are constantly flying for raising money, have their own private assets-custom-made clothings-luxury cars-mansions etc; so God is not interested in their appeals at all. I am not against wealth, God wants us to be wealthy to help others, but the full time Ministers must very carefully watch their love for wealth, because it will seriously affect the hotline connection with heaven.
Contd:-2
The constant pouring of appeals from the Church headquarters of India to the working people of the same denominations around the world for new projects in concrete and steel are creating a total confusion after reading the prayer of Mother Teresa! Do we have two different Gods? How, God took care of Mother Teresa's prayer and needs? She had two pair of "khadhi" sarees-ate very modestly and every dollar was invested to feed the hungry and give hope to the hopeless. But on the other hand, the Church leadershp people are constantly flying for raising money, have their own private assets-custom-made clothings-luxury cars-mansions etc; so God is not interested in their appeals at all. I am not against wealth, God wants us to be wealthy to help others, but the full time Ministers must very carefully watch their love for wealth, because it will seriously affect the hotline connection with heaven.
+3
a. s. mathew (December 14, 2011)
George Mueller of Bristol, England and
Mother Teresa of Calcutta undertook
millions of dollars worth of ministry,
feeding the hungry by
simply trusting in God. Both of them never sent an appeal for money, never
worried about the source of supply.
When the head of the Brothers of Charity, the Australian Fr. Le Joly asked Mother Teresa about the money,
her straight answer was this. " God is my Banker," Money...I never think of it. It always comes. The Lord sends it. We do His work; He provides the means. If He does not give us the means, that shows he does not want the
work. So why worry?. One T.V. evangelist who used to collect 130 million dollars/year selling his songs and showing pictures of "Chappthi" distribution in the slums of Calcutta
preached to the millions about the poor
chance of Mother Teresa going to heaven.
Within a few months, his ministry was
hit hard due to his moral failure.
George Mueller of Bristol, England and
Mother Teresa of Calcutta undertook
millions of dollars worth of ministry,
feeding the hungry by
simply trusting in God. Both of them never sent an appeal for money, never
worried about the source of supply.
When the head of the Brothers of Charity, the Australian Fr. Le Joly asked Mother Teresa about the money,
her straight answer was this. " God is my Banker," Money...I never think of it. It always comes. The Lord sends it. We do His work; He provides the means. If He does not give us the means, that shows he does not want the
work. So why worry?. One T.V. evangelist who used to collect 130 million dollars/year selling his songs and showing pictures of "Chappthi" distribution in the slums of Calcutta
preached to the millions about the poor
chance of Mother Teresa going to heaven.
Within a few months, his ministry was
hit hard due to his moral failure.
+3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 13, 2011)
many things that i see in today's spiritual-world and i am talking about the adherence to worship and spirituality is not 'all' strictly based on biblical-theology! lot of things about clothing,wearing ornaments, worship procedures,adherence to commandments- like baptism, interpretations on bible,etc,is all based on to a certain extent on our envy towards the other denominations![word 'we' refers to whoever you are]when they all say or do something in a certain way,we try to do it a little different and talk about them as they are doing wrong! they may be right or wrong- but my point is- we have to make sure that we are doing right- before we say they are wrong! for example- take the case of clothing- i have heard myself in churches, the clergy preaching, not to wear pants on sunday, and to ladies, not to wear bright color clothing on sunday!a special emphasis is given in churches in olden days to sit on the floor of the church,as if its a symbol of humility,come on,what a mess?
many things that i see in today's spiritual-world and i am talking about the adherence to worship and spirituality is not 'all' strictly based on biblical-theology! lot of things about clothing,wearing ornaments, worship procedures,adherence to commandments- like baptism, interpretations on bible,etc,is all based on to a certain extent on our envy towards the other denominations![word 'we' refers to whoever you are]when they all say or do something in a certain way,we try to do it a little different and talk about them as they are doing wrong! they may be right or wrong- but my point is- we have to make sure that we are doing right- before we say they are wrong! for example- take the case of clothing- i have heard myself in churches, the clergy preaching, not to wear pants on sunday, and to ladies, not to wear bright color clothing on sunday!a special emphasis is given in churches in olden days to sit on the floor of the church,as if its a symbol of humility,come on,what a mess?
+3
a. s. mathew (December 13, 2011)
TRUTHTELLER: What you said is very true about the personal liberty of each individual to wear the dress they like. The undue, unwanted and controlling mindset of the religious hierarchy must be challenged without any mercy. In the New Testament, only Timothy and Peter have touched the subject of ornaments-clothings and hair style. (1 Tim 2:9 and 1 Peter 3:3). Read Mathew 2:11 " And when they had .........and fell down and worshipped him. And when they had opened the treasures, they presented the gift to Him: GOLD, frankincense, and myrrh". Did Jesus ever teach against gold? St. Paul with a great eduction who wrote more epistles than anybody, never touched this unimportant subject. No wedding ring, but the Sunday sermon is about heaven and the golden roads and gates. The Pentecostal leaders of Travancore got special revelation about gold, but the leaders of other Indian states didn't get the same revelation. What a divine discrimination?
TRUTHTELLER: What you said is very true about the personal liberty of each individual to wear the dress they like. The undue, unwanted and controlling mindset of the religious hierarchy must be challenged without any mercy. In the New Testament, only Timothy and Peter have touched the subject of ornaments-clothings and hair style. (1 Tim 2:9 and 1 Peter 3:3). Read Mathew 2:11 " And when they had .........and fell down and worshipped him. And when they had opened the treasures, they presented the gift to Him: GOLD, frankincense, and myrrh". Did Jesus ever teach against gold? St. Paul with a great eduction who wrote more epistles than anybody, never touched this unimportant subject. No wedding ring, but the Sunday sermon is about heaven and the golden roads and gates. The Pentecostal leaders of Travancore got special revelation about gold, but the leaders of other Indian states didn't get the same revelation. What a divine discrimination?
+3
truthteller (December 12, 2011)
What is the big deal in becomig IPC joint secretary? Is it the money or ego satisfaction..
What is the big deal in becomig IPC joint secretary? Is it the money or ego satisfaction..
+3
truthteller (December 12, 2011)
Read the article by Shibu on women's hair. Are we going to regulate peoples lives. If someone wear a jeans who has Lajja - Shibu? or do we want go back to a cult to regulate people's behavior.
Don't forget it was a sin to wear men's underwear, one had to wear an indian tie.
Brother, please write about something useful that the God of this universe will be concerned about -it makes no difference to God what people wear, because he does not see it.
We are not living in the time of law, this is the time of grace.
Read the article by Shibu on women's hair. Are we going to regulate peoples lives. If someone wear a jeans who has Lajja - Shibu? or do we want go back to a cult to regulate people's behavior.
Don't forget it was a sin to wear men's underwear, one had to wear an indian tie.
Brother, please write about something useful that the God of this universe will be concerned about -it makes no difference to God what people wear, because he does not see it.
We are not living in the time of law, this is the time of grace.
+3
gt (December 12, 2011)
People like Shibu are destroying the reputation of Gospel work, and reaping at the expense of thousands of gospel workers who gave their blood and sweat to bring IPC as the major Pentecostal church in India and around the world. Some may try to hijack the Kingdom of God, but God will do His justice against who ransome it for their own individual benefits. Shibu should allow other senior ministers of IPC to be in the spiritual leadership positions before publishing the power hungry dreams of his. May the Lord Jesus Christ who appeared to Saul who became Paul, meet him at the road to Kumbanadu, and make a real conversion in him.
People like Shibu are destroying the reputation of Gospel work, and reaping at the expense of thousands of gospel workers who gave their blood and sweat to bring IPC as the major Pentecostal church in India and around the world. Some may try to hijack the Kingdom of God, but God will do His justice against who ransome it for their own individual benefits. Shibu should allow other senior ministers of IPC to be in the spiritual leadership positions before publishing the power hungry dreams of his. May the Lord Jesus Christ who appeared to Saul who became Paul, meet him at the road to Kumbanadu, and make a real conversion in him.
+3
thomas vemmelil (December 11, 2011)
shibu neduvelil says his dream is of a disciplined church. it is like the dream of a head to have a disciplined body! how could the body be disciplined unless the head is disciplined? if you have a head with an indisciplined body, the responsibility goes to your head and not to your body. when christ is the head of the body, the church his body is perfect with full of life and no need to be disciplined. ipc is nothing but an organization and not the body ofchrist and it's head is not christ but being headed by so many human heads. let bro. shibu read and meditate upon 1 corinthians 12 and learn more about the body of christ! .
shibu neduvelil says his dream is of a disciplined church. it is like the dream of a head to have a disciplined body! how could the body be disciplined unless the head is disciplined? if you have a head with an indisciplined body, the responsibility goes to your head and not to your body. when christ is the head of the body, the church his body is perfect with full of life and no need to be disciplined. ipc is nothing but an organization and not the body ofchrist and it's head is not christ but being headed by so many human heads. let bro. shibu read and meditate upon 1 corinthians 12 and learn more about the body of christ! .
+3
pastor (December 11, 2011)
Its most important to have a quality. Drinking of alcohol, sleeping with other women are not the quality for this. Its not the quality that the non-senses that somebody does is not known to the public, but only to some inner circle. If somebody of these qualities come up again (!), its better to stay away from them any further. 1. 'manasantharappeduka. (repent from all the sins that you do, confess it to God, witness in the church) 2. Shishyappeduka. (Not to teh so-called politicians who lives a life in above said manner. Not only that, shun down all the raisings (Jadam Pongaruthu)and submit to the authority (Thaazhma Dharikkuka). Vazhiye kanumbol Ketti Pidikkunna thaazhma alla, athu abhinayamaanu. If you can do all these and many further, you may succeed in your dreams.Or else you are defying the church. (I am resending it because the Malayalam fonts were not readable)
Its most important to have a quality. Drinking of alcohol, sleeping with other women are not the quality for this. Its not the quality that the non-senses that somebody does is not known to the public, but only to some inner circle. If somebody of these qualities come up again (!), its better to stay away from them any further. 1. 'manasantharappeduka. (repent from all the sins that you do, confess it to God, witness in the church) 2. Shishyappeduka. (Not to teh so-called politicians who lives a life in above said manner. Not only that, shun down all the raisings (Jadam Pongaruthu)and submit to the authority (Thaazhma Dharikkuka). Vazhiye kanumbol Ketti Pidikkunna thaazhma alla, athu abhinayamaanu. If you can do all these and many further, you may succeed in your dreams.Or else you are defying the church. (I am resending it because the Malayalam fonts were not readable)
+3
ponnappan (December 11, 2011)
shibu pastor...agrham nadakum.veruthe kettipidikunnathinte kude kurach kashum koode koduk, nadakum theeeercha.
shibu pastor...agrham nadakum.veruthe kettipidikunnathinte kude kurach kashum koode koduk, nadakum theeeercha.
+3
pastor (December 10, 2011)
Its most important to have a quality. Drinking of alcohol, sleeping with other women are not the quality for this. Its not the quality that the non-senses that somebody does is not known to the public, but only to some inner circle. If somebody of these qualities come up again (!), its better to stay away from them any further. 1. മാനസാന്തരപ്പെടുക. (repent from all the sins that you do, confess it to God, witness in the church) 2. ശിഷ്യപ്പെടുക (Not to teh so-called politicians who lives a life in above said manner. Not only that, shun down all the raisings (ജഡം പൊങ്ങുന്ന അവസ്ത)and submit to the authority (താഴ്മ ധരിക്കുക). ഭീഷണിയുടെ ഭാഷ ഓഴിവാക്കി, ആത്മീയന്റെ വസ്ത്രം ധരിക്കുക. If you can do all these and many further, you may succeed in your dreams.Or else you are defying the church
Its most important to have a quality. Drinking of alcohol, sleeping with other women are not the quality for this. Its not the quality that the non-senses that somebody does is not known to the public, but only to some inner circle. If somebody of these qualities come up again (!), its better to stay away from them any further. 1. മാനസാന്തരപ്പെടുക. (repent from all the sins that you do, confess it to God, witness in the church) 2. ശിഷ്യപ്പെടുക (Not to teh so-called politicians who lives a life in above said manner. Not only that, shun down all the raisings (ജഡം പൊങ്ങുന്ന അവസ്ത)and submit to the authority (താഴ്മ ധരിക്കുക). ഭീഷണിയുടെ ഭാഷ ഓഴിവാക്കി, ആത്മീയന്റെ വസ്ത്രം ധരിക്കുക. If you can do all these and many further, you may succeed in your dreams.Or else you are defying the church
+3
philip p thomson (December 9, 2011)
very good shibu.keep it up.pesidentakanalle agrahamullu.secratary chair nottamillallo.ente bhagyam
very good shibu.keep it up.pesidentakanalle agrahamullu.secratary chair nottamillallo.ente bhagyam
+3
abraham (December 9, 2011)
kashtam
kashtam
+3
gigi (December 9, 2011)
good
good
+3
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1 kings 22:38 verse concepts they washed the chariot by the pool of samaria, and the dogs licked up his blood (now the harlots bathed themselves there), according to the word of the lord which he spoke. 2 peter 2:22 verse concepts it has happened to them according to the true proverb, "a dog returns to its own vomit," and, "a sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."