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Authencity of Bible questioned by former Marthomite clergy man
Category: Current Affairs & News
Publish Date: Sep 25, 2011
Views: 56242

Authencity of Bible questioned by former Marthomite clergy man.
 
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Comments

Displaying 75 Comments
The views and opinions expressed in the comment section are strictly those of the comment authors alone and do not necessarily reflect and represent the views and opinions of Believer's Journal.
marthandan (March 17, 2014)
My family cast vote in the election...Now you can understand all my children including the sucking babe also included.
0
jj (July 10, 2013)
i was so happy to attend spiritual gathering of all pentecostals (pcnak) , 2013 conference is a real blessing for me. but 2013 meeting is the last meeting that in my life i attend pcnak. why because some croocked fellows who filled with evil spirit wanted to destroy this spiritual gathering at any rate, and they want play with the holy name of god. i thank the committee members of 2013 pcnak, who worked in unity
0
jo9999 (July 5, 2013)
believe in jesus and walk according to his spirit and word leading a holy life in the process or be prepared to face the JUDGEMENT which ever church your in make sure you have the right relationship with Jesus
+1
joe (May 22, 2012)
Achenkunjinoru pediyum illa. Are pedikkyan? Avashyathinu koottukarundu. Enthu paranjalum vishvasikkunna oru vibhagam alukalundu.Deivam karyam ettedukkathe pattilla. Namukku deivathodu prardhikkyam.
0
a. s. mathew (May 8, 2012)
ron: that is very true. there are some new testament "red letter edition" in which everything that jesus said is in red letter. it is very hard to find "red letter believers" today, but the black letter followers are rapidly increasing. what paul and peter wrote to different churches in their view points (they were filled with the holy spirit) had greater difference in outlook. the vast majority of the denominations were started based on some special issues addressed to churches at the first century. if jesus is trying to enter many of the churches in the same outfit he had while he was on the earth, our lord jesus won't get entrance in many fashionable church buildings, but may have to wait outside and listen through the public address system. it is time now to look to jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, and be a true red letter follower.
+8
ron (May 7, 2012)
Please don't be angry with your brothers love them as you love Jesus.God bless every one.
0
ron (May 7, 2012)
How people are quarreling for their churches their doctrines.No one wants to love or show kindness.When christians meet these happens,

1.Marthomites will say oh other churches,they are fake,we are the only church following ST.Thomas tradition.

2.Pentecostals say other churches are from satan.

3.Bretheren say no gifts from spirit working now its for past so all others are fake.

4.Catholics say we are the only church established by St.Peter we are the only true bride,for all others sorry.

5.Some independent churches say jacobites,marthomites,catholics,CSI these are satanic churches.They also say traditional pentecostal churches(TPM,Church of God,AG,IPC)"oh they have the presence of spirit in the past,but now the church is dead,if you want salvation come with us otherwise go perish".Dear brothers am i telling lie,you know its the truth.In every church their are bad people,who have other targets.Please don't be angry with your brothers love them as you lov
+5
sam thomas (March 1, 2012)
Contd.... This precaution is highly necessary to ensure self protection (like a blind- Isaiah 42:19-25), to survive the power of the deceiving spirit, ' the mystery of lawlessness ' in operation now(2Thes.ch.2).
+1
sam thomas (March 1, 2012)
The most cursed thing in the world now is the people are attracted and surrendered to superman spiritualists. When they run beyond the scripture, claiming the Holy Spirit gave them a new revelation, people believe it and ignore what is written on such issues.People are made afraid of the loving God by the super spiritualists'super techniques to make people surrendered to them, for their gains. Demonstrations of Catherine Coolman and her disciple Benny Heen who claimed anointed from the tomb of Catherine Coolman are examples for failed super spiritualists. When the so called Pentecostal leaders run behind Benny Heen they ignored his history through Catherine. No one can ban the women ministers acting wilfully against 1 Cori.14:34,35 & 1 Thimo.2:12 . But those who wish to obey the word of God must ignore unauthorised women ministries. Also all man ministers must be denied if they are following new revelation beyond the written word of God. Contd....
+1
ajnan kunju (March 1, 2012)
You are absolutely right Mr.Sam. It is better to avoid and ignore abhinava yudas aya maruppachakkarane.
+3
sam thomas (February 29, 2012)
yesuvine ottikkoduthathu thante sishyan aayi thaan theranjeduthirunna yudaas aayirunnu. Yesuvinte sishyanmaarku maathrame yesuvine ottikkodukkuvaan sadhikkukayullu ennanu avide velippeduthiyathu. Innum yesuvinte alukal ennu ariyappedunnavarkke yesuvine ottikkodukkuvaan kazhiyoo. Athil onnamanaanu MARUPPACHAYUM athinte PATHRADHIPARUM. Athil athbhuthappeduvaan onnumilla. athu innathe yudaas aanennarinju sookshichaal dhukhikkendi varikayilla.
+3
james (February 29, 2012)
‎1 corr.15:29 Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?



Proxy Baptism for the dead?



Paul did not condemn the practice of proxy baptism for dead. Why you people are against paraying for the dead.
0
sunny (December 17, 2011)
@ robin, let me ask you this, you just said 5- families are mentioned being baptized in Bible, so that means there were adults also in that group who were Baptized, so why is that is some churches today only the children are Baptized ? Read the Bible, Acts 19:4 and Romans 10:9&10. Baptism should be given to a repenting soul and not to anybody, children are given a grace period, because they are treated just like Angels, by our heavenly father and they don't need Baptism at that stage in their life. So if among the 5-families there were children, they were only taking a bath, and no harm because of it. That dip in the water by that children is not considered as a Baptism, because Baptism is a process for repentance and children are incapable of doing it. Answer my question that I asked before, if the 5-families got baptized, there were adults in it, so why are the adults not getting baptized in some churches ???
-3
robin (December 15, 2011)
@simple man,sally. there are clear evidence in bible that families took baptism. bible says 5 families took baptism.. no one can deny that.. we cant argue child is not a part of family..
+3
simpleman (December 14, 2011)
@Joy Chempakasseril, Sally Tx and Mathew:

Mathew must meditate on 1Timothy 1:5-7 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 6From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 7Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

Also 2Peter 3:16
He speaks about this subject in all his letters. Some things in them are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, leading to their own destruction, as they do the rest of the Scriptures.

No further explanation is needed about what he does to the readers of BJ through these columns by offering his unsolicited comments.

@BJ please bridle on what this 'Mathew' is propagating thru BJ columns; lest in the long run it will affect or tarnish the image of BJ. Thank you.
-4
sally john, tx (December 13, 2011)
@ JOY- are you referring to Mr Mathew ? Yah that is true, what a shame !!!!!!!
-4
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 13, 2011)
@ simpleman- 'avaddheea kodu kayyi', balleea beesshh - balleea beesshh, thala poonalum balleea beesshh ! he is not either burying the truth or pretending ignorant, but that he has a 'false ego' and he is dump s-pid in exposing it! he do not want to accept facts and truths even when they are proven!!!!!
-3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 12, 2011)
@ mathew- the reason why you and your churches insist on 'child-baptism' is because, there won't be too many adults to get baptized if they are asked for due to the reason that, there is not much depth or passion in faith about god or heaven in you traditional-ritualistic churches and then that the running or having a church becomes senseless! we know that too! don't simply bluff at things and act like you are smart, you have to have something within you when you say something! your words or points should make some sense, but unfortunately they are not-- you make many spelling mistakes too, shame on you!!!!!!
-3
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 12, 2011)
@ mathew- mr mathew,a picture always come to my mind, a drowning dog!'aayyoo- kasttom', you are establishing who you are every time when you talk! evadeea aarum nervous alla, i think you are! you have only distorted ideas or knowledge about bible. "vikadda chiri chiricchu avanavana thanne parihassikkukayanu thaanghal"! you are making fun of your own self and everybody is watching it.
-3
simpleman (December 12, 2011)
@Mathew...I have been following your replies on various issues since quite some time and I feel pity on your ignorance. Either you are burying the truth purposely or pretending to be ignorant. Please try to know the real truth and the truth will set you free. Whoever you are, please come out of your cocoon, pray to the Lord to open your eyes to understand the scripture in its right perspective than to interpret the scriptures according to your own understanding. All your comments are biased ones. It is just like the four blind-men's narration about elephant. To know and understand the real elephant, one has to see it. My humble advice to you is to stop stumbling on the real truth lest you will have to pay a heavy price. Nanma cheyyan arinjittum cheyyathavanu athu paapam aanu. Please do not fill these colums for arguments' sake or populaity's sake. If you do not know, then please keep quite rather than venturing in to like 'iruttokondu otta adackal" business. Best wishes.
-9
mathew (December 10, 2011)
@joy usa thankal ethra nervous aakunathu enthina.. eniku chiri vannittu mela... thankal swargathil chellumennu ulla divaa swapnam okae kollam.. bible enthananennu ariyathavare okae daivam engane sahikumo entho? karthvu parayunnu kelppan chevi ullavar kelkattae.malayalathil oru chollundu pothinodu vetham othiyittu karyamilla.. thankale daivam vicharichal polum rakshikan pattumonnu thonunnilla.. thankalude kapada vishwasamayittu munnottupokuka...ella vidha ashamsakalum..
+7
mathew (December 10, 2011)
Hoe do you find who is a Beliver? See Mark 16:16. Below:
So Panticost person should first give Poison to the man who says he belive to understand whether he believe or not before giving Baptism to Adult.
Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.” Can i give poison to you? ayyo pedichu odi pokathe.. ethiri visham kazhikanalle paranjullu..
+7
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 7, 2011)
@ mathew- the reason why you insist on having 'child-baptism' is because, in your churches if the priest asks for the adults to get baptized, there won't be too many people for that and the reason is that, there is not much passion or depth in faith about god among people in your traditional-ritualistic churches and that the running of a church becomes totally senseless at that point. i tried not to say this, but you don't let me otherwise, now think about it.may god bless the baptized!!!
-8
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 7, 2011)
@ mathew- "bapitsm ne kuricchu enikku oru thttidhaaranayum ellaa"- thankalkkaaanu thettidhaaranaa! you are like a derailed train now and do not know what to say! bible is not about tradition even though it has tradition in it.bible is by holy-spirit and by nobody else. baptism by immersion after acknowledgement and repentance is absolutely necessary for salvation- remember that, or else you are heading for the fire- the h-ell!
-9
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 7, 2011)
@ mathew- "ninghal eppol kocchu kuttikaleea pooleea ninnu moogukayanu"- and you are in total disarray, you have no precise answers to give me.nobody supported you, its you yourself sitting at your computer making all those plus and minus marks, i am at least smart enough to know that!
-7
mathew (December 6, 2011)
@ joy usa i request to know the development of bible canon,including notes of different council took place over centuries. then you will be able to better understand how much tradition influenced on the bible reading. ethayalum thankalude thettudharana mattan kazhinju ennu njan vishwasikunnu.. thankalku athu sammathikan vishamam kanum.. I thanks all who supported my answers.
+8
mathew (December 6, 2011)
@joy usa.. I am not at all confused.. thankal jathikale pole samarikunnu.. manushyante pravarthikal kondonnum raksha kittathilla.. thankal paranja prakara enthu eluppa raksha kittan, chumma vellathil onnu mungiyal mathiyallo.. baptism is not a mandatory thing for salvation. mungunna reethi mariyathu kondonuum oru vithyasavum undavilla.. abt john baptism i already explianed, it was already discarded by ancient church. Plse remember St. Paul praises God for not baptizing anyone. He clearly point out his duty is not to do baptism but to preach gospel..
+7
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 5, 2011)
@ mathew- "uttharam-mottiyaal konjhanam kanicchittu karriyam oonddoo?-you are in total disarray and lost your terrain of thought now. you are referring to out-of-context issues and just bringing is fragmented bits from bible, because of your frustration. the debate was about "child baptism", and not about 'repentance'! child-baptism is meaningless and totally non-biblical, while i agree with you that 'repentance' is a continuous thing, we never had a problem with that, so why you debate that now! your first and second paragraph doesn't make any sense to anybody. if baptism wasn't necessary why you talk about child-baptism ? and the adults in your church never get baptized right ? mr mathew, baptism, is totally necessary for salvation. salvation and grace has association with repentance -- grace is not a thing 'on-sale' for everybody, god should feel that you deserve grace. baptism is ordained by god, your statement in your second paragraph is total nonsense!
-8
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 5, 2011)
@ kunjachan-contd_1 jesus also showed an example- about how to take a baptism and it was a-baptism by immersion!jesus went to jordan river and took water baptism by immersion under john the baptist!well jesus didn't require a baptism and was only setting an example.baptism is symbolic of jesus crucifixion and the person who takes it declares and acknowledge himself that jesus died for his sins and he accepts it and is a visual proclamation of that belief. baptism in actuality is a blessing given through father god for that acceptance and proclamation.you also said-quote- the thief who took original baptism on the cross fulfilled the requirement and was saved. if that was baptism,then the thief on the left side also took baptism and why was he not saved ??? the difference that paved the way for salvation was the acceptance of the thief on the right side that,"jesus is lord and that jesus died for his sins"- so that was not baptism,that was crucifixion,the symbolism is called baptism!
-4
mathew (December 5, 2011)
@joy usa.. And this repentance is a continuous one as holy spirit work in you..Then you trust in God. Now you are Born of Spirit. First you were born of Flesh. Now you are Born again by Spirit. Paul got Holy spirit first then only he repent and believe in Christ. None of the apostles took Baptism. So Baptism of Water is not necessary. But Baptism of Holy spirit is essential to get rebirth. Baptism of Holy spirit is Essential, not water baptism and that is the first step.
+9
mathew (December 5, 2011)
@joy usa More over St Paul strongly established that salvation is by Grace of God alone and not by any work of man like Baptism or any other good work. . Bible cannot say two things contradictory at the same time. continue..
+6
mathew (December 5, 2011)
@joy usa please try to understand bible deeply.. read: ‎1corinthians 1: 14 i am thankful that i did not baptize any of you except crispus and gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16(yes, i also baptized the household of stephanas; beyond that, i don't remember if i baptized anyone else.) 17for christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of christ be emptied of its power. --you cannot establish a doctrine just by quoting one verse from bible. more over born of water does not mean water baptism. water is often refereed to as spirit greek explanation is you must be born of water that is spirit. next word say that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of spirit is spirit. that means born of baptism of holy spirit. not water baptism. continue..
+6
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 5, 2011)
@ kunjachan- quote-the most important act prescribed in the bible is the faith baptism...it is not for cleansing,but to wear christ. anyone who accept jesus as per rom 10:9 is cleansed and become eligible to wear christ. well,i differ from your view,first of all you are contradicting your own statements, at first you says, baptism is not for cleansing and later you says,by cleansing one become eligible to wear christ- i do not understand what you mean by that! roman 10:9, only talks about how to be saved-- confess with your mouth, "jesus is lord" and believe in your heart that god raised him(jesus) from the dead. baptism is a cleansing process also, as we are all born in sin,sanctification is needed,and that is the very purpose of baptism. you also say-quote- the original baptism jesus took is the one on calvary!-- well there is no original and then a duplicate baptism. what jesus took on calvary was a'persecution'on behalf of us,for our sins, an assignment from father god. contd_1
-4
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 3, 2011)
to mathew- contd 1- 'you are playing a monkey-game'! baptism is a commandment, by god which should be taken with repentance by one's own-self. its an act of acceptance and acknowledgement of what jesus went through in the cross-of calvary!"visvasikkunnavan snanam aellkkattea ennaanu" allaathea ethonnum manassilakkuvaanum, visvasikkuvaanum kazhiyaatthha kunjughal snanappedattea ennalla! you previously asked me to refer to mathew ch 18&19, mark ch 9&10 and asked me why i am against children from taking baptism, while god asks us not to prevent them from reaching him_ but now that in your churches only children are taking baptism and adults are held from taking baptism,right? children doesn't need baptism in their stage! remember that mathew- the bible doesn't talk anything about child-baptism, remember that. child-baptism is a meaningless ceremony!
-6
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 3, 2011)
To Mathew- Ninghal ee thiruvachanamghal palaprraavashyam eazhuthi - Mathew ch18&19, Mark ch9&10-- ethu vaayicchittu ninghalkku enthu manassilaayi ennariyunnilla. The essence of the above said Verses means- God says,"leave the children to me do not prevent them from coming to me as heaven is entitled to them".This is what I understand! Now do you mean to say, before leaving them to God, let us baptize them too ??? Bro Mathew the children do not need baptism to get to God or Heaven, read cleverly, the word, 'SWARRGHA RAAJYAM AVARRKKULLATHALLOO' means its an "ENTITLEMENT", meaning the children are entitled to heaven and access to God, and no more 'SANCTIFICATION' is required for them at this stage. Kanaanya-shthreeyudea visvaasavum, Naalu peerudhea visvaasavum, ethumaayi tharathamyam cheyyunnathu arrttha shoonyam alleea ? Kanaanya sthreeyudeea visvasam kandu makaleea swaukyam aakkiyathum, Naalupeerudhea vishvaasam kanddu pashhavaadhakkaranea ezhunnealppicchathum poole alla-CONTD 1
-6
mathew (December 3, 2011)
@ joy usa, 'i always said child baptism is a meaning less ceremony'- thankalude kunjine vishwasathode daiva sannidhiyil samarpichal daivam sweekarikathilla ennu engane parayaan pattum.. athu sathyathil thankalude kadamayalle.. kananya sthree yude vishwasam kandu makale sokhyam aakiya daivam, naalu perude vishwasam kandu pakshavadakarane ezhunelpicha daivam ennum jeevikunnu.. aa daivam vishwasikalaya mathapithakalude kunjine sweekarikum enna karyathil oru samshayamvum enikilla.. ningale polulla alpa vishwasikal athil samshayikunnu...
Read Mathew:18:1-6,19,13-15 Mark 9:33-37, 10:13-14. ningal thirinju shishukale pole aayillenkil swargarajyathil kadakathilla ennu njan sathyaayi ningalodu parayunnu.. karthavu joy odu veendu veendum parayunnu.. shishukale ente adukkal viduveen avare thadayaruthu..
0
joy chembakasseril, usa. (December 2, 2011)
@ mathew- 'thaanaa eppom veenathum, orunndathum'- i do not know which part of your body you use for thinking, i use my brain. i always said child baptism is a meaning less ceremony, because children are like angels to god and they do not require your senseless baptism. now when the child attain maturity as to a self-realization of who he is, then he requires repentance, because all are born in sin, because of adam and eve. the children is given a grace-period for that self-realization, as the father god the creator of all live-beings knows the biological limitations of a child.now which is the part you did not understand? secondly,you did not ask me any sensible question and your question was a self-defense, just because you cannot answer my question- 'show me a child being specifically mentioned anywhere in the entire bible as baptized'. "chumma kutthi erunnu niranghaatheea sahoodhara, moodu keerum, kaanaanum virrthhikeeadaayirikkum"! you are playing a monkey-game,you lost it!
+4
mathew (November 30, 2011)
@joy usa, thankal veenadathu kidannu ulurathae.. some times you are ready to accept children are angels & part of kingdom of heaven. some times you said they need repentance.. you are words are opposing each other. you are not able to answer any of my quesions. I remember when i asked a person why women are not wearing ornaments.. then he said a bibble word 1 Timothy 2:9. i was surprised by the interpretation given by you people.. Paul or Jesus never imagined the concept of not wearing ornaments.same time women have no problem in wearing costly clothes, expensive watches,sandals & also with braided hair. you are just reading some words, not able to understand inner meanings.. also read the link to know more abt early baptism documents: earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html
-1
a. s. mathew (November 16, 2011)
MATHEW: Please read this interesting
news at " mangaloretoday" and the
news " Christian Reforms Foundation
attempts to reform Church in India".
It is an organization to bring reforms
in the Catholic Church, but the Catholic
Priests have warned the believers that
they may not baptise the children and
bury the dead. If the Priests of other
denominations are taking a stand like that, what will be the end result?
+12
joy chembakasseril, usa. (November 15, 2011)
To Mathew_contd-1, Turn to the book of Mathew ch:3 V:13-Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto,to be baptized of him.Well Jesus doesn't need a baptism, he was setting an example.I recall one time you were mentioning about the crucification of Jesus as, Jesus's maanasandhara snanam, where did you get this,what an idiotic way of thinking is this? why would Jesus need maanasandharam? Refer to Mark CH:1 V:9, Refer to Luke Ch:3 V:21 Now all the people were baptized-- This tells you that the people[grown-ups] were baptized not children. Read Mathew CH: 3, which tells you about the need for Repentance which is a requirement for baptism, which small children are not able to do. Repentance ellathe baptism aaedukkunnathu veruthe kulikkunna pooleea ulloo ! Mathew Ch:4 V:17 says Jesus began to preach,and to say, Repent:for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.Eppool nammal Baptism enntthaanennu padhicchu- aaraannue Baptism edukkunnaathue ennum padhicchhu-Vayaru, alla Neranjhu kaanum alleea !
-6
joy chembakasseril, usa. (November 15, 2011)
to mathew_"what you are doing right now is playing a "monkey-game"_you cannot answer my question-my question was "can you show any incident specifically mentioned in the bible where a child was named as baptized" and you cannot answer my question, instead you are on the defensive trying to defend yourself by putting another question towards me- 'show me a christian who took adult baptism...check entire bible...[there itself you fumbled a little] no need to name a christian...show an incident which christian took adult baptism' first of all that question itself looks like a st.pid question to me! sahoodharaa mathew, there is no such thing as adults_only baptism, adults baptism ennu paranjhaal-- 'adults only baptism ennaanu oodheeshikkunnaathu ennu aaethu policukarannum manasilaakum, ethookkeea aarru pranjhu tharunnu ennaanu manassilakaatthathu.you told me to check the entire bible, well i don't have to sprawl around like that like you, 'cause i know exactly were it is-contd-1
-5
mathew (November 15, 2011)
@ joy usa, ´kunjughal malaaghamaare poole ennum, swarrgharaajyam, avarrkkullathallo ennum vishuddha biblil prathipaadhikkunnu".thank God atleast you agreed that children are members of God´s Kingdom. appol pinne vishwasathinte prasakthi enthanu sahodara? avare baptism cheyennathilninnu matti nirthan padundo? your next question is this-show me a child specifically been mentione anywhere in the whole entire bible ? I am also asking simple question show me a christian who took adult baptism.. check entire bible, no need to name a christian who took adult baptism, atleat show an incident which christian took adult baptism? thankalku verae valla vadavum munpil vekkanundo?
+10
joy chembakasseril, usa. (November 13, 2011)
To Mathew- "you are playing a 'monkey-game now" CONTD-1 njaanum hrridhayam kondhu angeekarikkunnu ennulla baahyamaaya prrakatanam aanu- jalatthillulla snaanam. eetthonnum manassillaakkaan kazhivillaatthaa oru pinchu kunghinea ninghaal vellathil mukkiyaal- snanam aakumoo? viddittharam allea ninghal samsaarikkunnathu? "kidannu veerrkkaathea sahoodhara, vishuddha veeda pustthakam nannayi vayicchu paddikkuka-- "child BAPTISM is a meaningless ceremony"
-7
joy chembakasseril, usa. (November 13, 2011)
to mathew- sahodhara ninghal eppool athum-ethum paranjhe thadhi-thappaan sramikkukayaanue. njyaan choodhiccha choodhyam- show me a child specifically been mentione anywhere in the whole entire bible ? aa- choodhyatthinu vyaktthamaaya marupadi tharaan kazhiyaatheea (kaaranam athinu marupadi tharaan ninghalkku kaziyilla) veeroru muttaapookki maruchoodhyam edutthidukayaanu ninghal. oru kudumbam ennu paranjhaal- sadhaarana gathiyil baariyayum barrthaavum kunjughalum ennu thanne yaanu njaanum vibhavanam cheyyukaa, samshayam onnum veendaa. vishuddha veedha pustthakatthil "kudumbam raksha prapicchu ennu vaayicchaal" aathinu, kunjughalum snaanappettu ennu arrtham ellaa !athinu kaaranam- "kunjughal malaaghamaare poole ennum, swarrgharaajyam, avarrkkullathallo ennum vishuddha biblil prathipaadhikkunnu".mr mathew ninghalkku 'snaanam' ennathineakkuricchu enndhaanum manassilaakkiyatheu ? manushya papanghal kkaayi kaalvariyil yaghamaaya aa divyayaagham, contd_1
-10
mathew (November 12, 2011)
@ joy usa, Ningalude chodyam ethanu "Please show me specifically from the entire Bible a child being mentioned been given BAPTISM". thankalodu same question njan chodikunnu evida bibleil shishukalku snanam kodukkaruthu ennu paranjirikunnathu.. Plse tell which word tells only grown up can be baptised. I want to ask simple question. what is the meaning of family? njangalude avidoke atleast husband, wife & child included. If you told that there was no child in family, i can agree that there may be no child in 1 or 2 families. I quoted 5 families baptised.. How there will be no child in at least one families.. ethayalum aa samayathu family planning onnum nadapakiyirunnila.. plse ask to any third person, whether children are included or not in family?
+9
joy chembakasseril, usa. (November 11, 2011)
@ Mathew: what your are doing right now is playing a "monkey-game"! read Bible and try to understand properly, what you have in you is a distorted version of ideas and interpretations of Bible. I am telling you again and again, child baptism is a meaningless ceremony. It appears to me that you are being helped or told to do this from a person at a different location and there is some confusion surrounding the reproduction of it, I see some symptoms. You are jumping here and there and not answering my queries. Please show me specifically from the entire Bible a child being mentioned been given BAPTISM.
-14
mathew (November 9, 2011)
@ joy usa,,may be somebody might be behind helping you with the versus in the bible, thankalude vicharam pentecostkarku mathrame bible ariyathullu ennanu.. enikum kurachoke ariyam.. by simple logic every one can understand very easily child baptism is biblical just think what the attitude of jesus towards children? jesus clearly children are the members of God´s Kingdom, you all should like children. my simple question how a children can be a member of God´s kingdom, if they are non belivers what ur arguing? I am 100% sure jesus will not reject if christian parents bring their child infront of lord for baptism. what ur argument abt 5 families baptised?
+15
mathew (November 9, 2011)
@joy usa, ha ha I understand ur problem in answering my questions. thankalude abhiprayathil ellavarum vishwasichu snanapettalae rakshyullu.. mentally retarded aaya alkare kurichu thankalku ariyilla, atho avare pentecostal churches thazanjirikuvano.. thankal parayunnu God knows´.. bible should not be understand by one word as pentecostal churches doing. plse read bible whole..
+9
joy chembakasseril, usa. (November 8, 2011)
@ mathew- what i understand from your conversation is that, you don't have a clear idea on what you are saying, your ideas don't relate consistently with the bible and you are just trying to dwell on your illusions, may be somebody might be behind helping you with the versus in the bible, that's the reason why you cannot come with a clear idea, i see some symptoms-- " ethinnu kastom ennalla kaastom ennu veenom vilikkaan". you are jumping here and there, you are not giving me a clear answer or answers. njan veerkkunnonum ella sahoodara, i am very comfortable in what i am saying. christian parents oondayaal kuttikalum rashikkapedum, manna buddhikal enduccheyum, eghaneyulla viddichoodhyanghal alle ninghal choodhikkunnathum, parayunnathum. i already answered you many times about the provisions god has for children, about the second one 'mannabuddhikal' your and my creator already knows who is a mannabuddhi and he has provisions for that. come on- try not to dwell on s-pid questions!
-7
mathew (November 8, 2011)
@joy usa "visvasikkunnavan snanam aallkkanam" ennu pranjathu ellavaroodum koodi annu, jaathikaloodu mathram alla" ans:kashtam aa samayathu christians illarunnu sahodara.. christians parents are different from non beleivers. Read Galatians 4:28,'namo sahdaranmare yisahakine pole vagthathal janicha makkal aakunnu.
Read 1crinthians 1:1-4: evide yisrayel makkal chenkadal kadannathine snanathodu tharathamyam cheyunnu. chenkadal kadannathu muthirnnavar mathramalla, ellavarum kadannu.
snanam etta families
1.acts 10:48 (kornallios & family),2. acts 16:15 (Ludhiya & family),3.acts 16:33 (jailer & his house holds), 4.acts.18:8 (cristos & family), 5.1corinthians 1:16 (sthefanos & famly)
How you can tell there were no children in any of the 5 families?
+10
mathew (November 8, 2011)
@joy usa, thankal explain cheyyan valare athikam viyarkunnu.. oru doubt mentally retarded aaya alkarum mannabhudhikum rakshayilla allae.. avarku vishwasikan pattathillallo.
Read Mathew:18:1-6,19,13-15 Mark 9:33-37, 10:13-14 'engane yulla shishukkalil onnine ente namathil kaikollunnavan ennae kaikollunnu' diava rajyam engane ullavarudethallo' above bible words clearly proves shishukkal daiva rajyathile angamkalanennum, yesuvindu cherunna snanathil ninnu avare matti nirthunnathu shariyallennum..
+10
joy chembakasseril, usa. (November 8, 2011)
@ Mathew- Quote-mathew- "Yesu ettaathu manasanthara snanam annu"- Mathew Yesu is part of the Trinity of God, Yesu- vinnu manasantharam aavashyam ellaa-okay, yesu koorushil manushya-paapaghalkkaaayi kalvari koorshil YAGAM AAKUKAYAAYIRUNNU athu yesu vinntte manasanthara snanam alla, Dear Mathew! Quote-mathew-"yesu sakkayiyudhea veedu sannarrshicchappool, ennu ee vidinu raksha vannu" ennu paranjhathu, orru kalpanayannu, athu snanam alla. Krruushille kallanu, "ennu nee ennoodu koodhea parudeesayil erikkum" ennu paranjathu, oru kalpanayaaanu, athum snanam alla. "visvasikkunnavan snanam aallkkanam" ennu pranjathu ellavaroodum koodi annu, jaathikaloodu mathram alla. Paulose veendum snanapedaan alla paranjhathu, vishvasicchu sanapedaan annu paranjhathu-- come on, what are you telling us- mathew ???
-6
joy chembakasseril, usa. (November 8, 2011)
@ mathew- acts 19, verse 4 means- john the baptiste, was conducting a baptism of repentance, meaning, he was conducting a baptism preceeded by a repentance by the person being baptized and after hearing that paul was re-affirming to the people, by telling them- ' ente pinnaalee varunnavanaaya yeshuvil visvasikkanam ennu janattoodu paranju. here "janam" doesn't mean gentils,it only means 'people', thats were you mis-quoting the bible. etthu keeattappool avar karrtthaavaaya yesuvil visvasichhu snanamm aaettu--this very line tells you that you have to believe in jesus before getting baptized. paul told them to do that [he did not tell them not-to-do-that] in other words paul told them to believe in jesus, [which means repent on your sins and accept jesus] before getting baptised. "hrudhayam konndu visvasikkayum, vaayyea konddu eettu parayukayum veenam'. a small child cannot do all of this or a small child wont be able to do this! so what do you mean by child baptism ???
-9
joy chembakasseril, usa. (November 7, 2011)
@ mathew- can you quote specifically a child being baptized anywhere from the bible ? if you read the scriptures clearly, its mentioned in many places that baptism is a process that has to take place after repentance and acceptance of jesus christ as your savior."husband-um wife-um christian aaneghil avarudheea veettil janikkunna kunjhinnu rakshayudhea anubhavam ellaa", you are mis-guided right there brother! repentance and acceptance is possible only when a child attains a certain maturity in spirit and soul, until that point a child is given 'a grace period' and they are like angels for god. "kunjughal malaghamaarennum, swargharaajyam avarkkullathallo ennum vishuddha bible pasippikkunnu".i tell you again and again, child baptism is a meaningless ceremony. bible is not about traditions or history, although there is history and traditions in it, bible is orginated from holy spirit over a period of time. back to your scripture in acts 19, verse 4 means, john was conducting- contd
-7
mathew (November 7, 2011)
Main points of pentecostal church aganist child baptism: 1. yesu muthirnnappol snanam ettu.( Yesu ettathu manasanthara snanam aanu. aa snanam elkkan nammuku pattilla, athu kalvari kroosh ettedukunnathinu munnodi aayitullathanu, athu poorthikarichathu krooshile snanathalanu. Adima sabha yohannante snanam angeekarichilla,acts19:3, paulose avarode veendum snanam elkkan parayunnu.) 2. Vishwasichu snanam elkanam(ee prasangam naduthunnathu christiansinodu alla, athu yahoodarodo mattu jathikarodo aanu, for non believers, first they have to believe in jesus & then only they can be baptise. I want to finally tell salvation or eternal life is not achieved through baptism(john1:12,1corinthians1:17,romans 4:27acts16:31,ephesians2:8,galatians:3:26)
+15
mathew (November 7, 2011)
@ a.s mathew-above article try to project that child baptism is non biblical. So I replied to make clear that according to episcopal churches child baptism is biblical & there are lot of bible references to substantiate the child baptism. yesu sakkayiye sandarshichappol paranjathu "ennu ee veedinu raksha vannu ennanu" avidonnum kuttikale matti nirthiyitilla. athukondu oru vishwasi moolam oru kodumbathil raksha vannenkil, husbandum wifeum christians aanenkil avarude veettil janikunna kunjinum rakshayude anubhavam undavum..
+11
a. s. mathew (November 7, 2011)
mathew: i don't want to draw you or anybody to the stage of argument about theological subjects, because our solid convictions which we have inherited
through our early upbringing will be very hard to change. i have a lot of respect for the salvation army believers and they are in front everybody while people are faced natural calamities. they don't have
both the lord's supper and baptism.

the gospel of jesus christ will transform human hearts, and baptism
is for anybody of any age, who was transformed by the gospel of christ.
are the children born in sin or sinners?
why they need to be baptized?

the religious hierarchy is keenly interested to play their religious roles
and to control the laymen anyway possible in every religious sacrament
possible. mathew, please read the bible touching those portions about baptism, and the holy spirit will guide and lead you to confirm the biblical
truth about it. god bles
+14
mathew (November 7, 2011)
@a. s. mathew 'Can the infant of three or five months have the capacity of " believing the gospel"?: appol mentally retarded aaya alkarum, manna bhudhi kalkum rakshayillallo sahodara.. evarkoke engane vishwasikan pattum?
@joy usa:'Oru vayassum, onnara vayasum olla kunjughal, avarudea thalayil, acchan vellam koori oozhikkubool, kidannu karayunnathallaatheea, onnum cheyunnilla´:
nammal kunjinu food kodukumbol athu karayumbol kodukathirikumo, adyam schholil cherkumbol kunju kidannu karayumbol schoolil cherkathe thirichu varumo.. adinekalum ethraya vilapetta snanam kazhikumbola thankalku vishamam?
+8
a. s. mathew (November 5, 2011)
If the readers are interested to read
a great article about water baptism,
please go to www.southasianconnection.com
and read the article by Sangeeta Jain.
(What is Water Baptism). She was miss
Washing a few years back, Jain by birth
and a lawyer by profession.
She was faced with an accident, and finally became a follower of Christ.
But now she is
working in Delhi in the mission field
along with her family.
+5
a. s. mathew (November 5, 2011)
If the readers are interested to read
a great article about water baptism,
please go to www.southasianconnection.com
and read the article by Sangeeta Jain.
(What is Water Baptism). She was miss
Washing a few years back, Jain by birth
and a lawyer by profession.
She was faced with an accident, and finally became a follower of Christ.
But now she is
working in Delhi in the mission field
along with her family.
+3
kunjachan (November 5, 2011)
The most important act prescribed in bible is the faith baptism.It is not for cleansing but to wear Christ(V.gal.3:27).Any one who accept Jesus as per Rom.10:9 is cleansed and become eligible to wear Christ.Those who wear Christ only become God's children.It has declared by heaven when Jesus took baptism(my beloved son). The original baptism Jesus took is the *** on the cross. The thief who declared Jesus as Lord took the original baptism on the cross itself.Water baptism is symbolic and allowed by heaven for us only.Remember the thief died after Jesus.So he has fulfilled the rule for salvation clearly.
-15
mathew (November 4, 2011)
@joy chembakasseril, usa, not at all joy.. can you tell any words in bible telling not to baptise child. Act 19:3,'Ennal ethayirunnu ningalude snanam ennu avan avarodu chodichathinu,yohannante snanam ennu paranju. athinu paulose yohannan manasanthara snanam aanu kazhipichu.. athinu shesham avar veenudm snanam ettu.. So its clear that john baptism is not acceptable(which was jesus took).
+14
joy chempakasseril, usa. (November 3, 2011)
@ mathew- i have no doubts about what i am saying, my context pertaining to what i am saying about baptism is based on the bible and not on a speech somebody made according to their interpretation and convienience. you look like you are getting drowned in your point of view. you mentioned about acts 19, where and in which verse does paul say, do not take baptism like jesus ? and who is jesus and who is paul can you explain.which and what kind of bible are you reading ? child baptism is not at all a baptism and is a meaningless ceremony, i am telling you that again, the priesthood is interpreting all of this to their convenience, mathew.
-8
mathew (November 3, 2011)
@joy chembakasseril, usa
'even jesus set us an example by taking baptism by immersion' Palul asking to not to do the baptism what jesus took from john.(acts19) I understood u did not listen the speech. all your doubts are answering on the speech.. plse listen & reply..
+12
truthteller (November 2, 2011)
I think we must be inclusive as Jesus was inclusive. There are core beliefs that we should not compromise on, there are other non core beleifs that there should be room for interpretation. Baptism of the believer is a core belief.

Infant baptism, just like dedication is not a core belief and so if a parent wants to baptize a child, there is nothing wrong with it in itself as long as it does not stand in the place of adult baptism.
0
joy chembakasseril, usa. (November 2, 2011)
@ mathew&the other guy hiding under name chembakam, you all can agree on the subject, but i agree to disagree with you. first of all i have no respect to the guy hiding under the name chembakan and i know that he was trying to make fun of me by not putting his name and that i will come to know who he is if he put his real name. now i am trying to bring all my points into the conversation and that's not trying to talk too much. above all what the relavence about lengthy talk or short talk when i am trying to convey my thoughts. mr mathew what you have to understand is 'taking baptism is a commandment of god', we don't have to dig on history about how to do it and we as human being has no right to manipulate it according to our convenience. even jesus set us an example by taking baptism by immersion. we are digging history to make it convenient for us !!!
+4
chembakam (November 1, 2011)
I agree with Mathew on that Joy Chembakam speaks too much...
+6
mathew (November 1, 2011)
@joy chembakasseril, usa,first listen on the speech in the link: the comment, without patient to listen what episcopal church says, you are blindly replying..
+6
mathew (November 1, 2011)
problem with pentecostal churches is they read the bible without understanding history & what circumstances they wrote the book..you can't talk bible without tradition. bible is not a book gifted by God on one day.. it is evolved through years. our holy fathers discussed in synod & made this bible in present form. unlike the muslims, bible is evolved through the tradition.. plse understand first the church formed, not the bible what we have seen now..
+11
joy chembakasseril, usa. (October 30, 2011)
Contd @ Mathew- from my previous topic- Child Baptism- Ethu puroohithavarrgham, avarudheea, loohaa nanayaathirikkaan kandu pidiccha oru maargam alle ? Visvaasikal is mislead,Daivatthe aaraadhikkunnaa poole, acchaneeyum arraadhikkunnu,athukondu acchenparayunnathum visvasikkunnu, cheyyunnu !Pithaavaaya Divam arulichyyithu, "njaan allaathe ninkku veeroru daivam unndaakaruthue",athoru kalpanayaannu, thamaasayallaa ! Acchanmmarea nammall nischhayamaayum Bahumaanikkanam, paksheea aaradhikkanda kaaariyam ella, Biblelil athu parayunnillaa !Besides all of that why you call it, Child Baptism- Why don't you just don't refer that as another- baptism ? So you know right there itself there is a problem !Orukunjineea konduu vellathil mukkiyaal athu valiya paapam ennonnum njaan pranjilla, paksheea athu Vishudha Bible anusaricchee, yaathoru arrthavum ellaattha kaaryam aakunnu ! Ethhrayum paranjukondu, thalkkaalam, aatoppic avasaanippikkunnu, eniyum kuuduthal samskkaarikandi vannaal samskkaarikkaam!
+2
a. s. mathew (October 30, 2011)
MATHEW: The Episcopal Churches are leaning far more greatly on "traditions"
rather than the living word of God.

If we read the New Testament, it is very clearly written that "bapitsm" is
only for the believers. Can the infant
of three or five months have the
capacity of " believing the gospel"?.

Some of the Churches give too much
importance to declare the numbers of
bapitsms in their denominations. Who baptized the thief on the cross before
his death?

The Episcopal Churches are holding to one chapter of the Bible (please read
Acts of the Apostle Chapter 16). Verse 33 says " And he took them the same hour
of the night and washed their stripes.
And immediately he and all his family
were baptized". There might be children in the family, so the children
were also baptized is the hypothetical
conclusion of the Episcopal Churches.

There is no passage in the
+8
joy chembakasseril, usa. (October 30, 2011)
@ Mathew-About Child Baptism- When you are told to make a right turn, why would you want to make a left turn, don't you know its a supposed to be a right turn and turning left is a "wrong-turn"! Makaneea, pooyee kulichittuvaae ennu Pithaavu kalpicchaal,aathenghilum nannjaa thoorrtthu kondu deeahum thudacchittu vannal kuli aakumoo ? "Avanavan paapanghual aaettuu pranjhu, Visvasikkunnavan snanappedatteea ennu, vyakthamaayi, vishuddha Biblelil paraamarrshikkunnundee !Oru vayassum, onnara vayasum olla kunjughal, avarudea thalayil, acchan vellam koori oozhikkubool, kidannu karayunnathallaatheea, aa kunju karayunna asahyamaya kaazccha mattullavarrum kandhu nilkkedivarunnathum allaathe, ennthaanu sambavikkunnathu ? Onnum, Onnara vayasum ulla kunjughalkkuu, ethellam thicchariyaanum, Visvasikkaaanum, snanam aaellkkunnu ennu manassilaakkaanum ulla kazhivundoo, viddittharam alle kaanikkunnathu ? Kunjughal malaghamarennum, swargharaajyam avarkkulathallo ennu Vishuddha bible padippikkunnu_
-3
mathew (October 30, 2011)
I wonder why pentecostal people try to potrait child baptism as non biblical. according to all episcopal churches child baptism is biblical. you can hear the strong words of God from the bishop on following link: www.esnips.com/web/BAPTISMMAMMODISASPEECHHYMNS
+11
truth (October 6, 2011)
Rava Sunny Ayyo Kashtam
0
a. s. mathew (September 25, 2011)
If this Sunny Abraham has a doubting spirit of attacking the living word of God, then the believers must watch him very carefully. One day, God almighty will make him understand that he was playing with the living word of God. Voltaire said, within 30 years after his death, the Bible will be handled by the people as a story book, but in his *** bed, he made his repentence. Years back, the Presiding Bishop of the Marthoma Church didn't believe what Jesus did in Mathew 14, feeding the five thousand people. The Bishop wrote in Malankara Sabhatharaka " that the people used to carry food with them, and when Jesus said, they all put together the food, then started serving to all. Then the balance turned to 12 baskets of food". For him, JESUS was a social revolutionary with great commanding power. It is very clearly written that only one boy had five loaves of bread and two fishes, and the disciples made that statement to Jesus very clearly and openly.
+2
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