Ip¼-\mSv I¬h³j³ Bcw-`n¨p
Category: Current Affairs & News
Publish Date: Jan 9, 2012
Views: 32251
Kumbanadu Convention 2012 Starts.
I¬h³j³ DZvLm-S\w k`m {]kn-Uâv ]mÌÀ sI. kn. tPm¬ \nÀÆ-ln-¡p-¶p. A²y£ {]kwKw ]mÌÀ än. Fkv. G{_lmw. thZn-bn ]mtÌgvkv sI. Fw. tPmk-^v, kmw tPmÀÖv, sI. kn. tXma-kv, ^nen-¸v. ]n. tXma-kv, tP¡_v tPmÀÖv, tPm¬. sI. amXyp, hÕ³ G{_-lmw, s_©-an³ hÀ¤o-kv, {io.hÀ¤okv Btâm BâWn Fw. ]n.
Ip¼-\mSv: 88þm-aXv Ip¼-\mSv I¬h³j³ Bcw-`n-¨p. sF. ]n. kn. ko\n-bÀ P\-d an\n-ÌÀ ]mÌÀ än. Fkv. G{_-lm-ansâ A²y-£-X-bn \S¶ DZvLm-S\ kt½-f-\-¯n k`m {]kn-Uâv ]mÌÀ sI. kn. tPm¬ DZvLm-S\w \nÀÆ-ln-¨p. P\-d sk{I-«dn ]mÌÀ hÕ³ G{_-lmw ]qÀ®-X-bn-te¡v apt¶-dpI F¶ I¬h³j³ Xow Ah-X-cn-¸n¨p {]kw-Kn-¨p. Hmd tdm_À«vkv bqWn-th-gvknän Uo\pw kp{]-kn² {]kw-K-I-\p-amb tUm. tXmwk¬ sI. amXyp-hmWv CuhÀjs¯ apJy {]kw-K-I³. ]mÌÀam-cmb k®n Ipcy³, tPm¬. sI. amXyp, t__n hÀ¤okv, sI. tPmbn, _m_p sNdn-bm³, Fw. Fkv. imap-thÂ, ^nen¸v ]n. tXma-kv, sI. kn. tXma-kv, sI. Fw. tPmk-^v, sI. kn. tPm¬, hÕ³ G{_lmw F¶n-hÀ cm{Xn-tbm-K-§-fn {]kw-K-I-cm-Wv. 15 \v \S-¡p¶ Bcm-[-\-bn ]mÌÀ än. Fkv. G{_lmw IÀ¯r-ta-ibv¡v t\XrXzw \ÂIpw.
Ip¼-\mSv: 88þm-aXv Ip¼-\mSv I¬h³j³ Bcw-`n-¨p. sF. ]n. kn. ko\n-bÀ P\-d an\n-ÌÀ ]mÌÀ än. Fkv. G{_-lm-ansâ A²y-£-X-bn \S¶ DZvLm-S\ kt½-f-\-¯n k`m {]kn-Uâv ]mÌÀ sI. kn. tPm¬ DZvLm-S\w \nÀÆ-ln-¨p. P\-d sk{I-«dn ]mÌÀ hÕ³ G{_-lmw ]qÀ®-X-bn-te¡v apt¶-dpI F¶ I¬h³j³ Xow Ah-X-cn-¸n¨p {]kw-Kn-¨p. Hmd tdm_À«vkv bqWn-th-gvknän Uo\pw kp{]-kn² {]kw-K-I-\p-amb tUm. tXmwk¬ sI. amXyp-hmWv CuhÀjs¯ apJy {]kw-K-I³. ]mÌÀam-cmb k®n Ipcy³, tPm¬. sI. amXyp, t__n hÀ¤okv, sI. tPmbn, _m_p sNdn-bm³, Fw. Fkv. imap-thÂ, ^nen¸v ]n. tXma-kv, sI. kn. tXma-kv, sI. Fw. tPmk-^v, sI. kn. tPm¬, hÕ³ G{_lmw F¶n-hÀ cm{Xn-tbm-K-§-fn {]kw-K-I-cm-Wv. 15 \v \S-¡p¶ Bcm-[-\-bn ]mÌÀ än. Fkv. G{_lmw IÀ¯r-ta-ibv¡v t\XrXzw \ÂIpw.
Displaying 236 Comments
The views and opinions expressed in the comment section are strictly those of the comment authors alone and do not necessarily reflect and represent the views and opinions of Believer's Journal.
sam thomas (February 16, 2012)
Today the curse in Pentecostal sectors,expected to spread the gospel of salvation all over the world is lose of true vision.When Israelites lost the presence of Moses for some days when he went to mountain to meet God,they looked at Aaron saying we don't see Moses for days,who lead us to this desert.Aaron also was ignorant about the reality of God as he has not experienced God in face. Moses was God to him too(Ex.4:16). When people asked him to show God for them, Aaron has no doubt to allow people to make a God they knew & kept in their heart during their life in Egypt and he shaped it.It was a Calf which brought the wrath of God over them immensely.The history repeats today.The forefathers who experienced god really in the last century are gone. Now leaders like Aaron are there among the people. These Aarons are ready to make God in any shape people pleases to accept. Surely this will bring Gods wrath again.So repent and turn to God through His Word under the guidance of Holy Spirit
Today the curse in Pentecostal sectors,expected to spread the gospel of salvation all over the world is lose of true vision.When Israelites lost the presence of Moses for some days when he went to mountain to meet God,they looked at Aaron saying we don't see Moses for days,who lead us to this desert.Aaron also was ignorant about the reality of God as he has not experienced God in face. Moses was God to him too(Ex.4:16). When people asked him to show God for them, Aaron has no doubt to allow people to make a God they knew & kept in their heart during their life in Egypt and he shaped it.It was a Calf which brought the wrath of God over them immensely.The history repeats today.The forefathers who experienced god really in the last century are gone. Now leaders like Aaron are there among the people. These Aarons are ready to make God in any shape people pleases to accept. Surely this will bring Gods wrath again.So repent and turn to God through His Word under the guidance of Holy Spirit
0
sam thomas (February 9, 2012)
Athe,Athe, Mazha ethra sakthiyaayittu peythaalum kamazhnnirikkunna kalathinu enthu prayojanam !!!!
Athe,Athe, Mazha ethra sakthiyaayittu peythaalum kamazhnnirikkunna kalathinu enthu prayojanam !!!!
-2
alex sebastian (February 9, 2012)
to sam bro- contd-2, Ninghal enghaneea bahalam vacchu,bahalam vacchu, aarenghilum oru kalleeadutthu eearinjhaal,aanneeram parayum kaarrthavinu veennddhi 'kaassttom sahicchu ennue',come on,don't be foolish, you should be able to attract people with your 'suvisheashom' rather than scaring them into it! I still remember a Pentecostal Pastor,he went right beside a Hindu Temple,to Proclaim the Gospel,and said many things against Hindu Faith and ended up in hospital! This Pastor was badly beaten up by the Hindus! Enghaneea ulla viddhittharanghal kaanicchittu 'karrthhaavinue veenddi kasstom sahicchu' ennu paranjhal.This Pastor has gone "CRAZY" in his beliefs and lost his right senses about when and where to present! My understanding is that,every human being is normally given a basic wisdom,we are supposed to 'act and react' according to that! 'viddittharam kaanicchittu' mukalliloottu nookkiyaal Daivom thampuran poolum adutthu kaanilla ennu visvasikkunna aalaanu njaan!
to sam bro- contd-2, Ninghal enghaneea bahalam vacchu,bahalam vacchu, aarenghilum oru kalleeadutthu eearinjhaal,aanneeram parayum kaarrthavinu veennddhi 'kaassttom sahicchu ennue',come on,don't be foolish, you should be able to attract people with your 'suvisheashom' rather than scaring them into it! I still remember a Pentecostal Pastor,he went right beside a Hindu Temple,to Proclaim the Gospel,and said many things against Hindu Faith and ended up in hospital! This Pastor was badly beaten up by the Hindus! Enghaneea ulla viddhittharanghal kaanicchittu 'karrthhaavinue veenddi kasstom sahicchu' ennu paranjhal.This Pastor has gone "CRAZY" in his beliefs and lost his right senses about when and where to present! My understanding is that,every human being is normally given a basic wisdom,we are supposed to 'act and react' according to that! 'viddittharam kaanicchittu' mukalliloottu nookkiyaal Daivom thampuran poolum adutthu kaanilla ennu visvasikkunna aalaanu njaan!
+2
alex sebastian (February 9, 2012)
to sam thomas- contd-1, if you can expose the positive aspects of enternity, the joy and happiness of it, rather than the negative aspects of h-ell, you can win people more easily.this typical type of preaching, has been going on in pentecostal circles and it is typical of pentecostals and they are not winning any souls!i go to every denomination,even though i am a catholic now!can you tell me has a single soul added in your church during the last year, most likely the answer would be a 'no', i know that, and this is the reason! 'poorrna aathmaavoodheea sthuthikaan' paranjhathue,ullaa bahalam ellaam vakkaanallaa, chenddheeyum adhicchu policchu, mattullavarudhea swyravum kedutthi! poorrna aathmaavoodhea sthuthikkuka ennu vacchaal, 'ninttheea aathmaavinddheea poorrna sannidhyam, aarrppanam aaaa suthiyill unddaakeenam ennanue! ethu ninghal nighadheea communittiyil pracharippikkeenam! pentecosthukaareea palarum esshttapedatthathue eee bahalam koonddanue! contd-2
to sam thomas- contd-1, if you can expose the positive aspects of enternity, the joy and happiness of it, rather than the negative aspects of h-ell, you can win people more easily.this typical type of preaching, has been going on in pentecostal circles and it is typical of pentecostals and they are not winning any souls!i go to every denomination,even though i am a catholic now!can you tell me has a single soul added in your church during the last year, most likely the answer would be a 'no', i know that, and this is the reason! 'poorrna aathmaavoodheea sthuthikaan' paranjhathue,ullaa bahalam ellaam vakkaanallaa, chenddheeyum adhicchu policchu, mattullavarudhea swyravum kedutthi! poorrna aathmaavoodhea sthuthikkuka ennu vacchaal, 'ninttheea aathmaavinddheea poorrna sannidhyam, aarrppanam aaaa suthiyill unddaakeenam ennanue! ethu ninghal nighadheea communittiyil pracharippikkeenam! pentecosthukaareea palarum esshttapedatthathue eee bahalam koonddanue! contd-2
+2
sam thomas (February 9, 2012)
Sorry, Sorry. kamazhnnirikkunna kudathil vellam nirakkuvaan kazhiyukayillallo.
Sorry, Sorry. kamazhnnirikkunna kudathil vellam nirakkuvaan kazhiyukayillallo.
-2
alex sebastian (February 9, 2012)
to sam thomas- 'ethineea aaanu njan "stereo-type" ennu paranjheea'!
sam bro nammal prasanghicchhaalum ellenghilum, oruvan rakshaprraapikkenmennu daivniyoogham oondheeghil athunadakkuka thanneea cheyyum!this is the scenario i would like to talk to you- veeroru channellue oru hindhu sahoodharen ezhuthivacchirikkunna kannddu, ninghdheea daivom enghaneea aalukaleea maasaccerr ccheyunna daivom aaneeghil, njaanghadheea daivom etthrayoo nallavanaa, ennikkendheea mathhom mathi-- you know, the problem is we are scaring people with our "suvishesham".preach "simple gospel", like this--that there is a place up above called heaven, where we all can live in happiness and joy, a land with no sorrow and worries for enternity with jesus, if you accept jesus as your saviour, rather than saying if you don't accept jesus, you will end-up with trails and tribulations and would be burnt in fire in h.ell.
in other words when you talk about the positive aspects rather than negative contd-1
to sam thomas- 'ethineea aaanu njan "stereo-type" ennu paranjheea'!
sam bro nammal prasanghicchhaalum ellenghilum, oruvan rakshaprraapikkenmennu daivniyoogham oondheeghil athunadakkuka thanneea cheyyum!this is the scenario i would like to talk to you- veeroru channellue oru hindhu sahoodharen ezhuthivacchirikkunna kannddu, ninghdheea daivom enghaneea aalukaleea maasaccerr ccheyunna daivom aaneeghil, njaanghadheea daivom etthrayoo nallavanaa, ennikkendheea mathhom mathi-- you know, the problem is we are scaring people with our "suvishesham".preach "simple gospel", like this--that there is a place up above called heaven, where we all can live in happiness and joy, a land with no sorrow and worries for enternity with jesus, if you accept jesus as your saviour, rather than saying if you don't accept jesus, you will end-up with trails and tribulations and would be burnt in fire in h.ell.
in other words when you talk about the positive aspects rather than negative contd-1
+1
alex sebastain (February 9, 2012)
to sam thomas- for your knowledge, every christian denomination has been touched by the pentacostal experience, even the catholic community. it's only a matter of time they officially accepts it. the catholics are the only ones who are little sceptical about it. there are priests in catholic denomination who are blessed with speeking in tongues, you may probably know that. bro sam, you talk like you own something special! ' bible prasangicchaal pooreea, athintteea koodheea mattu palathum kootti ccheerkkanoo? ' ennthaanu loooka eemmbhanghal ennu ninghal prassanghikunneea ? you look so paranoid, ninghadheea prasangham keeattaal loookam muzhuvan, njarambbhu roookikal aaanennu thoonni pookum, atthoo pentacostillaanoo? eveedheea visshuddhnaayi jeevkkanameenkil, manassuukonddu vichaaricchaal, daivabhayam undhenghil oru prayaasavum ella! bro sam ninghadheea prasangham keettitteu, ninghal enndhneeyo bhayakkunna pooleea thoonnunnu! ninghal suvesheesham paranju visvaasikale
to sam thomas- for your knowledge, every christian denomination has been touched by the pentacostal experience, even the catholic community. it's only a matter of time they officially accepts it. the catholics are the only ones who are little sceptical about it. there are priests in catholic denomination who are blessed with speeking in tongues, you may probably know that. bro sam, you talk like you own something special! ' bible prasangicchaal pooreea, athintteea koodheea mattu palathum kootti ccheerkkanoo? ' ennthaanu loooka eemmbhanghal ennu ninghal prassanghikunneea ? you look so paranoid, ninghadheea prasangham keeattaal loookam muzhuvan, njarambbhu roookikal aaanennu thoonni pookum, atthoo pentacostillaanoo? eveedheea visshuddhnaayi jeevkkanameenkil, manassuukonddu vichaaricchaal, daivabhayam undhenghil oru prayaasavum ella! bro sam ninghadheea prasangham keettitteu, ninghal enndhneeyo bhayakkunna pooleea thoonnunnu! ninghal suvesheesham paranju visvaasikale
+2
alex sebatian (February 8, 2012)
to Bro Sam Thomas- ' ningha' stands for a faction of Pentecostals ! God Bless You !
to Bro Sam Thomas- ' ningha' stands for a faction of Pentecostals ! God Bless You !
+2
sam thomas (February 8, 2012)
Contd..parayunnavarkkum kelkkunnavarkkum orupole bhadhakamaanu deiva vachanam. athu iruthala moorchayulla vaalanu.deivam ellavareyum snehikkunnu.ellavarkkum thante aduthekku varuvaan vaathil thurannittirikkunnu.njaan janichu valarnnu nilkkunna matha-sectorlecku deivam varanamennalla deivam vilikkunnidathekku njaan pokum ennanu theerumaanikkendathu.Again I request,please forget any Pentecostal organisations, think about the teachings only. poulose ezhuthy-nilkkunnu ennu karuthunnavan veezhaathirikkuvaan nokkatte ennu.eppozhum veenu pokuvaan saadhyathayundu.pidichu kazhinju ennalla enikkum athu pidikkuvaan kazhiyumo ennu aaghrahichu odunnatheyullu ennum poulose ezhuthy.namukkum athu maathrame parayuvaan kazhiyoo.visuddheekarikkappeduvaan swantha hrudhayathile viswaasavum ettuparachilum maathramallathe mattoru koodhaasa-karmma maargavum illa enna vachana velichavum undaakanam. sathyam ariyuvaan aaghrahichu aathmaarthamaayi praarthichaal deivam kaividukayilla ennullathu enteyum saakshyam.
Contd..parayunnavarkkum kelkkunnavarkkum orupole bhadhakamaanu deiva vachanam. athu iruthala moorchayulla vaalanu.deivam ellavareyum snehikkunnu.ellavarkkum thante aduthekku varuvaan vaathil thurannittirikkunnu.njaan janichu valarnnu nilkkunna matha-sectorlecku deivam varanamennalla deivam vilikkunnidathekku njaan pokum ennanu theerumaanikkendathu.Again I request,please forget any Pentecostal organisations, think about the teachings only. poulose ezhuthy-nilkkunnu ennu karuthunnavan veezhaathirikkuvaan nokkatte ennu.eppozhum veenu pokuvaan saadhyathayundu.pidichu kazhinju ennalla enikkum athu pidikkuvaan kazhiyumo ennu aaghrahichu odunnatheyullu ennum poulose ezhuthy.namukkum athu maathrame parayuvaan kazhiyoo.visuddheekarikkappeduvaan swantha hrudhayathile viswaasavum ettuparachilum maathramallathe mattoru koodhaasa-karmma maargavum illa enna vachana velichavum undaakanam. sathyam ariyuvaan aaghrahichu aathmaarthamaayi praarthichaal deivam kaividukayilla ennullathu enteyum saakshyam.
-1
sam thomas (February 8, 2012)
@ Alex Sebastian-I again request,please do not see Pentecostal as an organisation.The doctrine of Pentecostal faith can be followed by any individual to attain the goal.I have never claimed myself or any one following the Pentecostal doctrines are or will be in perfect holiness continuously in the life here.
lokathile pralobhanangalile aarum veenu poyekkam. ennal veenu ennu manassilakkuvan kazhinjaal ettuparanju mappapekshichu veendum visudhi praapikkam ennathaanu nettam. ea avakaasam labhikkanamenkil rakshikkappettu snanathil puthrane dharichukondu deivamakkal enna padhavi nediyedukkanam. appanodu, appa,ennodu kshamikkane ennu parayuvaan makkalkku mathrame avakaasamullu. ellavarkkum ea avakaasam prapikkamallo.pinne enthinaanu tharkkam? ennaal veenu ennu ariyuvaan kazhiyanamenkil engineyellam veezhaam ennu arinjirikkanam. athanu devavachanathile 'NO' kalude uddhesyam.Athu choondikkanikkunnavarodu "nee angane aanoda ?" ennu chodhichittu prayojanamilla.Contd....
@ Alex Sebastian-I again request,please do not see Pentecostal as an organisation.The doctrine of Pentecostal faith can be followed by any individual to attain the goal.I have never claimed myself or any one following the Pentecostal doctrines are or will be in perfect holiness continuously in the life here.
lokathile pralobhanangalile aarum veenu poyekkam. ennal veenu ennu manassilakkuvan kazhinjaal ettuparanju mappapekshichu veendum visudhi praapikkam ennathaanu nettam. ea avakaasam labhikkanamenkil rakshikkappettu snanathil puthrane dharichukondu deivamakkal enna padhavi nediyedukkanam. appanodu, appa,ennodu kshamikkane ennu parayuvaan makkalkku mathrame avakaasamullu. ellavarkkum ea avakaasam prapikkamallo.pinne enthinaanu tharkkam? ennaal veenu ennu ariyuvaan kazhiyanamenkil engineyellam veezhaam ennu arinjirikkanam. athanu devavachanathile 'NO' kalude uddhesyam.Athu choondikkanikkunnavarodu "nee angane aanoda ?" ennu chodhichittu prayojanamilla.Contd....
-1
alex sebastian (February 8, 2012)
to bro sam thomas- i need to be fair in what i am saying- so let me refrace my question, ' pentecostukkarril palarum' gunappedunna kaaryamoo ??? bhakkttiyil ellaam thikanjhu nillkkunnu ennu parayunna ninghal !!!
to bro sam thomas- i need to be fair in what i am saying- so let me refrace my question, ' pentecostukkarril palarum' gunappedunna kaaryamoo ??? bhakkttiyil ellaam thikanjhu nillkkunnu ennu parayunna ninghal !!!
+1
sam thomas (February 8, 2012)
Ippozhum eppozhum sthuthiyaayirikkattte.
Ippozhum eppozhum sthuthiyaayirikkattte.
0
alex sebastian (February 8, 2012)
to sam thomas-- ninghal ' fool' ennu njaan paranjheelaa, ninghal thanneea ninghaleea 'fool' ennu vissheeshippicchaal pinneea, ninghal parayunnathokkeeayum 'foolishness' aayittalleea mattullavarrkku thoonnukayulluu, ' fool' parayunnathu 'foolishness'! looka manushnaaya mahatmaavinu christtu matthattheea bahumaanmaayirunnu! mahatma thanndheea prrasanghom, jheevicchhu kaanicchu! ennu aeeathu pentthaakoosstthu kaaraneea kannddaanu, mattullaavarr gunam-pidikkuneea? aaadhyam eee ellaam thikanjhuu ennu bhaavikkunna pentecostthu kaaran gunapettu jheevicchu kaanikketteea! prasanghikkunnathu jheevithatthill kaananamallo! aaaraanu gunappeedeennddathennu cchiddhikkuka! god bless you- eesso masihaakku stthuthi aayirikketteea!
to sam thomas-- ninghal ' fool' ennu njaan paranjheelaa, ninghal thanneea ninghaleea 'fool' ennu vissheeshippicchaal pinneea, ninghal parayunnathokkeeayum 'foolishness' aayittalleea mattullavarrkku thoonnukayulluu, ' fool' parayunnathu 'foolishness'! looka manushnaaya mahatmaavinu christtu matthattheea bahumaanmaayirunnu! mahatma thanndheea prrasanghom, jheevicchhu kaanicchu! ennu aeeathu pentthaakoosstthu kaaraneea kannddaanu, mattullaavarr gunam-pidikkuneea? aaadhyam eee ellaam thikanjhuu ennu bhaavikkunna pentecostthu kaaran gunapettu jheevicchu kaanikketteea! prasanghikkunnathu jheevithatthill kaananamallo! aaaraanu gunappeedeennddathennu cchiddhikkuka! god bless you- eesso masihaakku stthuthi aayirikketteea!
+1
sam thomas (February 8, 2012)
OK. MR. Alex sebastiane njano enne addhehamo ariyukayilla. ithil ezhuthunnathu aarkkenkilum alppamenkilum prayojanappedumenkil aayiram pravasyam fool aayaalum vishamikkuvaanillallo.gunam pidichaal swarghathil kandu santhoshikkamallo.thanks.
OK. MR. Alex sebastiane njano enne addhehamo ariyukayilla. ithil ezhuthunnathu aarkkenkilum alppamenkilum prayojanappedumenkil aayiram pravasyam fool aayaalum vishamikkuvaanillallo.gunam pidichaal swarghathil kandu santhoshikkamallo.thanks.
0
alex sebastian (February 8, 2012)
palathum anumaanaghlalleea bro alex, Bible vaayikubhoozhum anghaneea aanoo ?
palathum anumaanaghlalleea bro alex, Bible vaayikubhoozhum anghaneea aanoo ?
+1
joy alex (February 8, 2012)
@Sam Thomas: Don't get fooled by Alex Sebastian. That's our own dear Joy Chembakaseril writing with his non-pentecostal username. So in nutshell joy chembakaseril and Alex Sebastian are the same person. Only difference is that under Alex Sebastian user name he will act like he's againt pentecostals.
@Sam Thomas: Don't get fooled by Alex Sebastian. That's our own dear Joy Chembakaseril writing with his non-pentecostal username. So in nutshell joy chembakaseril and Alex Sebastian are the same person. Only difference is that under Alex Sebastian user name he will act like he's againt pentecostals.
+1
sam thomas (February 8, 2012)
Sree Alex Sebastiane pole bible muzhuvan ariyaavunna oru katholican(?)nde chodhyangalkku utharam parayuvaan pandu oru katholican aayirunna enikku kazhiyumo ? Enikku oru kaaryam maathram ariyaam,Roman katholica sabha undaaythu AD 315nu seshomaanannum,Roman mathathil ninnanu prathimakal kadannu koodiyathennum,oru pramanam maychukalanju ennum, athu oru apakada koottamaanennum. enthayaalum sudheekarana sthalathu (VESPRUKKANA)kidannu venthu paapam muzhuvan theerthu swargathil pokaamallo.athu nadakkatte. njaan athu vendennu vachu irangi ponnavanaanu.(valiya aavesavum 'easo misihaykku sthuthiyaayirikkatte' enna aasamsayum kandathu kondaanu aal oru katholican aanennu njaan oohikkunnathu. sariyallenkil kshamikkuka.) ethayaaalum penthakosth ennu kelkkumbol vallathe arisam kollenda. pandu njaanum angane aayirunnu. charismaatic dhyaanathil koodi deivam kaaryangal manassilaakki thannappolalle pazhaya mandatharangal orthu chammippokunnathu. saaramilla deivam oru nallakaalam thaankalkkum tharatte.
Sree Alex Sebastiane pole bible muzhuvan ariyaavunna oru katholican(?)nde chodhyangalkku utharam parayuvaan pandu oru katholican aayirunna enikku kazhiyumo ? Enikku oru kaaryam maathram ariyaam,Roman katholica sabha undaaythu AD 315nu seshomaanannum,Roman mathathil ninnanu prathimakal kadannu koodiyathennum,oru pramanam maychukalanju ennum, athu oru apakada koottamaanennum. enthayaalum sudheekarana sthalathu (VESPRUKKANA)kidannu venthu paapam muzhuvan theerthu swargathil pokaamallo.athu nadakkatte. njaan athu vendennu vachu irangi ponnavanaanu.(valiya aavesavum 'easo misihaykku sthuthiyaayirikkatte' enna aasamsayum kandathu kondaanu aal oru katholican aanennu njaan oohikkunnathu. sariyallenkil kshamikkuka.) ethayaaalum penthakosth ennu kelkkumbol vallathe arisam kollenda. pandu njaanum angane aayirunnu. charismaatic dhyaanathil koodi deivam kaaryangal manassilaakki thannappolalle pazhaya mandatharangal orthu chammippokunnathu. saaramilla deivam oru nallakaalam thaankalkkum tharatte.
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alex sebastian (February 8, 2012)
to sam thomas-'being a pentecostal is the assurance to salvation'- evidunnu kitti eee velippaddu,ninghal asammannddham alleea parayunneea?etthraa pentecostukaarr kkundeeu eee assurance ennue? athu ninghtheea aagraham paranjhuu ennu maathram! ninghal pentecostil jhanicchhuu athukonddu enghaneea okkeea!
abraham was the chosen one,so you claim him to be pentecostal???
quote- not a verse in the bible,but the bible is the answer? don't you see a confusion there?
quote-abraham was the only chosen one,this is were you pentecostals mislead others- god was looking for a leader. he found abraham as the right choice,now that does not mean god doesn't need others,but he only needed one as a leader to lead the isrealists!
bro sam you were saying in the early part of the depiction that,god only chose one abraham and nobody else,in the later part of your conversation you are saying according to rom 3:25,no bar,any one can receive salvation,isn't that a contradiction?
to sam thomas-'being a pentecostal is the assurance to salvation'- evidunnu kitti eee velippaddu,ninghal asammannddham alleea parayunneea?etthraa pentecostukaarr kkundeeu eee assurance ennue? athu ninghtheea aagraham paranjhuu ennu maathram! ninghal pentecostil jhanicchhuu athukonddu enghaneea okkeea!
abraham was the chosen one,so you claim him to be pentecostal???
quote- not a verse in the bible,but the bible is the answer? don't you see a confusion there?
quote-abraham was the only chosen one,this is were you pentecostals mislead others- god was looking for a leader. he found abraham as the right choice,now that does not mean god doesn't need others,but he only needed one as a leader to lead the isrealists!
bro sam you were saying in the early part of the depiction that,god only chose one abraham and nobody else,in the later part of your conversation you are saying according to rom 3:25,no bar,any one can receive salvation,isn't that a contradiction?
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alex sebestian (February 8, 2012)
to Sam Thomas-- Ninghal mattullavarr choodhicchha cchoodyghalkku marupadhe parayaatheea "kettazhinjha" pattiyeea pooleea oodukayaanue! Answer the questions please!!!
Bible lileea 66 pusthkathill avidheeayum evidheeayum vaayicchu kondu, kakkrra ppuukkra eeazhuthi viduvaan aarrkkum saadhikum!!!
Interact and Answer the Questions!!!
to Sam Thomas-- Ninghal mattullavarr choodhicchha cchoodyghalkku marupadhe parayaatheea "kettazhinjha" pattiyeea pooleea oodukayaanue! Answer the questions please!!!
Bible lileea 66 pusthkathill avidheeayum evidheeayum vaayicchu kondu, kakkrra ppuukkra eeazhuthi viduvaan aarrkkum saadhikum!!!
Interact and Answer the Questions!!!
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sam thomas (February 7, 2012)
Contd......That is why Jesus declared He will be in the midst of those two or three assembled in His name. where ever there is the presence of Jesus there is His Church. This may be a little difficult to understand as we are living in the world with many religious organisations,faith and disciplines. If we seek Verse in the bible to prove there is only one way, let us see John,10:9 & 14:6. So let us ignore denominations and the members there in and think of ourselves and Jesus for our own salvation and preach and stand firm for the truth. Manushyar denominationukalil abhimaanikkathe yesuvil layikkuvaan idayaakatte. deivam niyamichirikkunna adhyaapakarum swartha mohangalkkum sthuthikalkkum pukazhchakalkkum vendi idarippokathe sathyathil nilanilkkuvaanum namukku eka manassode prarthikkam. Let us remember there is only one syllabus to teach and only one way to walk to attain eternity with Jesus Christ.
Contd......That is why Jesus declared He will be in the midst of those two or three assembled in His name. where ever there is the presence of Jesus there is His Church. This may be a little difficult to understand as we are living in the world with many religious organisations,faith and disciplines. If we seek Verse in the bible to prove there is only one way, let us see John,10:9 & 14:6. So let us ignore denominations and the members there in and think of ourselves and Jesus for our own salvation and preach and stand firm for the truth. Manushyar denominationukalil abhimaanikkathe yesuvil layikkuvaan idayaakatte. deivam niyamichirikkunna adhyaapakarum swartha mohangalkkum sthuthikalkkum pukazhchakalkkum vendi idarippokathe sathyathil nilanilkkuvaanum namukku eka manassode prarthikkam. Let us remember there is only one syllabus to teach and only one way to walk to attain eternity with Jesus Christ.
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alex sebastian (February 7, 2012)
contd-1, bro sam thomas, ninghal paranjha poole pentecostalism oru teaching allaa-- athu oru experience aannu-- ninghal kkunddoo, athoo uundennu "bhaavikkeyaanoo"? 'the pentecostal experience'-- and you people now named yourself pentecostals and made it into an organisation, that's the one i am talking about! daivom manushyaneea srrishtticchu--poorrna swathannthrranaayi-- ennum naamellarum swathantthrraanu-- daivavachanam enghane vyaakhyaanikkuvaanum swaathantthriyamunndhue--- athukondhu ninghalum"ninghadheea-vyaakyaananghall" vyaakyanikkunnuu !!! eessoo mashihaakku sthuthiyaayirikketteea !
contd-1, bro sam thomas, ninghal paranjha poole pentecostalism oru teaching allaa-- athu oru experience aannu-- ninghal kkunddoo, athoo uundennu "bhaavikkeyaanoo"? 'the pentecostal experience'-- and you people now named yourself pentecostals and made it into an organisation, that's the one i am talking about! daivom manushyaneea srrishtticchu--poorrna swathannthrranaayi-- ennum naamellarum swathantthrraanu-- daivavachanam enghane vyaakhyaanikkuvaanum swaathantthriyamunndhue--- athukondhu ninghalum"ninghadheea-vyaakyaananghall" vyaakyanikkunnuu !!! eessoo mashihaakku sthuthiyaayirikketteea !
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sam thomas (February 7, 2012)
Contd....The fruit of only one tree was prohibited to Adam, where as the fruit of only one tree,ie.the fruit of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the tree, is granted for mankind to save them from the trap they fell through Adam. we do not look Jesus through an organisation or priest set up. Jesus Christ is the only Priest and His bride is the only organisation relating to mankind and the God. The route to associate with this organisation, the church of the Lamb, was revealed on the day of Pentacost before 2000 years through Peter.That is why I told Pentecostal is not an organisation to join ,but it is only a doctrine for salvation.The organisations now bearing the name of Pentecostal are only training schools to proclaim the truth and train mankind to prepare them to be in the church of the Lamb. the number of training schools have no bar. so the question how many churches or denominations are there in the Pentecostal is not raised. Contd.....
Contd....The fruit of only one tree was prohibited to Adam, where as the fruit of only one tree,ie.the fruit of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the tree, is granted for mankind to save them from the trap they fell through Adam. we do not look Jesus through an organisation or priest set up. Jesus Christ is the only Priest and His bride is the only organisation relating to mankind and the God. The route to associate with this organisation, the church of the Lamb, was revealed on the day of Pentacost before 2000 years through Peter.That is why I told Pentecostal is not an organisation to join ,but it is only a doctrine for salvation.The organisations now bearing the name of Pentecostal are only training schools to proclaim the truth and train mankind to prepare them to be in the church of the Lamb. the number of training schools have no bar. so the question how many churches or denominations are there in the Pentecostal is not raised. Contd.....
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alex sebastian (February 7, 2012)
Bro Sam Thomas-- Ninghaleea 'stereo-type' ennu njaan vilicchathu valareea aalochicchu thanneea annu,enikku thettu pattiyillaa! ninghal parayunnathuu ninghal vicharikkunnaa atheea fraymill chinnthikkaatthavar,kuttom cheyunnaavarum,paapikalum aanennaanoo 'MANNAANKATTAYUM-KARIYILAYUM'aliyunnathum parakkunna kadhaa orrmayil pedutthiyathinu nannni, ninghadheea pookkuu kaanubhool "MANNANKATTEEA" yanu manasil kooduthal thelinjhu kaanunnathea- aayathinalanue 'MANNANKATTA'ennu neerattheea paranjhatheu!quote-'thettaayi padippikkunnu-- aaranu thettayi padippikunneea ?enthaanu looka embhanghal ? onnu parayaamoo? Ninghal pentecostukaar cinema kaanillennu parayunnu-- athu verum "hypocrisy alleea". Bro Sam ninghal cinema kannddittilleennu manassuddhiyoodheea parayaan pattumoo?pootteea, vazhiyeea kanndda thuniyillaa posteril ninghall thuricchuu nookkittilleea?manavaattiyeea orukkunnathu ninghalkku matthromulla quotation aannoo? athu ella visvasikaludheeyum kadamayanu! contd-1
Bro Sam Thomas-- Ninghaleea 'stereo-type' ennu njaan vilicchathu valareea aalochicchu thanneea annu,enikku thettu pattiyillaa! ninghal parayunnathuu ninghal vicharikkunnaa atheea fraymill chinnthikkaatthavar,kuttom cheyunnaavarum,paapikalum aanennaanoo 'MANNAANKATTAYUM-KARIYILAYUM'aliyunnathum parakkunna kadhaa orrmayil pedutthiyathinu nannni, ninghadheea pookkuu kaanubhool "MANNANKATTEEA" yanu manasil kooduthal thelinjhu kaanunnathea- aayathinalanue 'MANNANKATTA'ennu neerattheea paranjhatheu!quote-'thettaayi padippikkunnu-- aaranu thettayi padippikunneea ?enthaanu looka embhanghal ? onnu parayaamoo? Ninghal pentecostukaar cinema kaanillennu parayunnu-- athu verum "hypocrisy alleea". Bro Sam ninghal cinema kannddittilleennu manassuddhiyoodheea parayaan pattumoo?pootteea, vazhiyeea kanndda thuniyillaa posteril ninghall thuricchuu nookkittilleea?manavaattiyeea orukkunnathu ninghalkku matthromulla quotation aannoo? athu ella visvasikaludheeyum kadamayanu! contd-1
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sam thomas (February 7, 2012)
Not a verse, but the bible is the answer to the question.Denominations are not a matter. From all denominations in the world at the time of Abraham, God called and separated only Abraham for Him. When God was leading and protecting the generations of Abraham, He did not consider the other denominations. That is the model drawn in the bible for salvation, the journey to 'Canaan'. In the Old testament God derived a picture model of His plan About the mankind by CHOOSING Only Abraham where as in the New Testament the whole mankind is given the opportunity to CHOOSE Jesus for salvation. "whom God set forth to be a propitiation by His blood,through faith....."(Rom.3:25). This declares ,no bar,any one can accept Jesus Christ as his saviour during his life in this earth. if any one can choose his salvation through Christ at his own discretion, the question ,'what about the denominations' is not raised. Contd....
Not a verse, but the bible is the answer to the question.Denominations are not a matter. From all denominations in the world at the time of Abraham, God called and separated only Abraham for Him. When God was leading and protecting the generations of Abraham, He did not consider the other denominations. That is the model drawn in the bible for salvation, the journey to 'Canaan'. In the Old testament God derived a picture model of His plan About the mankind by CHOOSING Only Abraham where as in the New Testament the whole mankind is given the opportunity to CHOOSE Jesus for salvation. "whom God set forth to be a propitiation by His blood,through faith....."(Rom.3:25). This declares ,no bar,any one can accept Jesus Christ as his saviour during his life in this earth. if any one can choose his salvation through Christ at his own discretion, the question ,'what about the denominations' is not raised. Contd....
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a. s. mathew (February 7, 2012)
brother sam thomas: " being a real pentecostal is the assurance of salvation". can you please tell the reference of that verse in the bible? what about the other denominations without the pentecostal experience? are they in the pending or waiting list?
brother sam thomas: " being a real pentecostal is the assurance of salvation". can you please tell the reference of that verse in the bible? what about the other denominations without the pentecostal experience? are they in the pending or waiting list?
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sam thomas (February 7, 2012)
Pentecostal is not an organisation to join, but only a teaching revealed from heaven on the day of Pentecost before 2000 years.All individual following that teaching is known as Pentecostal. No other meaning. Being a real Pentecostal is the assurance of salvation.
Pentecostal is not an organisation to join, but only a teaching revealed from heaven on the day of Pentecost before 2000 years.All individual following that teaching is known as Pentecostal. No other meaning. Being a real Pentecostal is the assurance of salvation.
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sam thomas (February 7, 2012)
Deivam manushyane srishtichathu poorna swathanthran aayittaayirunu. pazham thinnaruthennu vilakkundaayirunnenkilum thinnuvanum swathanthryam undaayirunnu. anussaranakketinulla phalam kitty ennu mathram. innu naamellavarum swathanthraraanu.deivavachanam engane vyakhyaanikkuvaanum swathanthryamundu. thettayittu padippichum paddichum lokayimbangalkkothu parasparam prolsaahippichu jeevichaal avasaanam'MANNANKATTAYUM KARIYILAYUM 'pole alinjum parannum poyi shoonyamakukayayirikkum phalam.
Ennal thante manavaatikkundaayirikkenta yogyathakal vilichu paranju kondirikkuvaan deivam chilare nirbandhikkunnu.avar athu cheyyunnathu kaanumbole asahishnuvaayi kopikkukayo vikaaradheenanraakukayo cheyyaruthu.(we r free).sneham maathramaaya deivam neethimaanumaanu. avanil namukku rakshayundu,pakshe vyavastha prakaaram maathram. vyavastha vittu aareyum sahaayikkuvaan kazhiyaathathukondu thante puthrane namukku nalki(John,3:16).vyavasthakal paalichu orungunnathalle nallathu?enthinoru bhagyapareekshan
Deivam manushyane srishtichathu poorna swathanthran aayittaayirunu. pazham thinnaruthennu vilakkundaayirunnenkilum thinnuvanum swathanthryam undaayirunnu. anussaranakketinulla phalam kitty ennu mathram. innu naamellavarum swathanthraraanu.deivavachanam engane vyakhyaanikkuvaanum swathanthryamundu. thettayittu padippichum paddichum lokayimbangalkkothu parasparam prolsaahippichu jeevichaal avasaanam'MANNANKATTAYUM KARIYILAYUM 'pole alinjum parannum poyi shoonyamakukayayirikkum phalam.
Ennal thante manavaatikkundaayirikkenta yogyathakal vilichu paranju kondirikkuvaan deivam chilare nirbandhikkunnu.avar athu cheyyunnathu kaanumbole asahishnuvaayi kopikkukayo vikaaradheenanraakukayo cheyyaruthu.(we r free).sneham maathramaaya deivam neethimaanumaanu. avanil namukku rakshayundu,pakshe vyavastha prakaaram maathram. vyavastha vittu aareyum sahaayikkuvaan kazhiyaathathukondu thante puthrane namukku nalki(John,3:16).vyavasthakal paalichu orungunnathalle nallathu?enthinoru bhagyapareekshan
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alex sebastian (February 7, 2012)
to sam thomas----- "MANNAANKATTAA"- Your narration about salvation resembles a 'HORROR-STORY'! You are trying to create an illusion, based on a rendering given in the Bible. 'KOYITHU, VAYALEEU, VAALEEU, VEELAA,MOORCCHAYULLA VAALL,DAANNYAM,CCHATHUPPUNILAM, MANNANKATTA-- These things are not confusing and its so simple----
"Papanghal eetthue paranjhue, yeesuvinae rakshithaavaayee sweekarikkunnaavan, RAKSSHANEEDI" its so simple as that-- the only on going thing is that he/she has to maintain that RAKSHHAA, based on Bible requirements !
You are a stereo-type and is Brain-Washed to think that way, because of your church! Its not stated anywhere in the Bible that, you will attain Salvation only if you join Pentecostals!
'Daivom ninteea ninavukaleea shoodhanacheyyunnuu'-- I am sure more people other than Pentecostals make it to heaven !!!
to sam thomas----- "MANNAANKATTAA"- Your narration about salvation resembles a 'HORROR-STORY'! You are trying to create an illusion, based on a rendering given in the Bible. 'KOYITHU, VAYALEEU, VAALEEU, VEELAA,MOORCCHAYULLA VAALL,DAANNYAM,CCHATHUPPUNILAM, MANNANKATTA-- These things are not confusing and its so simple----
"Papanghal eetthue paranjhue, yeesuvinae rakshithaavaayee sweekarikkunnaavan, RAKSSHANEEDI" its so simple as that-- the only on going thing is that he/she has to maintain that RAKSHHAA, based on Bible requirements !
You are a stereo-type and is Brain-Washed to think that way, because of your church! Its not stated anywhere in the Bible that, you will attain Salvation only if you join Pentecostals!
'Daivom ninteea ninavukaleea shoodhanacheyyunnuu'-- I am sure more people other than Pentecostals make it to heaven !!!
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sam thomas (February 6, 2012)
Contd.. kalathinakathu kadakkuvaanulla vyavastha valare lalithamaanankilum kadannu kazhinjaal akathulla vyvasthakal valare karkkasamaanennu thanneyaanu lekhanangalum velippadu pusthakavum vilichu paranjukondirikkunnathu.saayippaayaalum kaappiriyaayaalum indiakkarano chinaakkaarano aayaalum kalathinakathe ekathayulla vyavasthayilekku roopantharappettenkil maathrame akathu aayirikkuvaan kazhiyukayullu.illenkil puramthallappedum. ithellam parayunnathu manushyare bhayappeduthuvaanalla,manavaatti manavaalanodu cheruvaan yogyamaayi-bhaya-bhakthi-bahumaanangal ullavalaayi thanne orukkappedanam ennathukondaanu.adhikaara bhramavum bhahumaana dhahavum vedinju kristhuvinde ninna chumannukondu ororutharum koithinirangumenkil parisudhathmaavu koode nilkkum. aayudham moorchayullathaakum. vilavu muzhuvanum manavaalanu yogyamaayi kalappurayil sekharikkapedum. nalla oru maattathinaayi prarthikkaam.(N.B-2000 varsham pazhakkamullathu pentecosth sabhayaanu. backiyellam AD 315nu sesham mathramullathaanu)
Contd.. kalathinakathu kadakkuvaanulla vyavastha valare lalithamaanankilum kadannu kazhinjaal akathulla vyvasthakal valare karkkasamaanennu thanneyaanu lekhanangalum velippadu pusthakavum vilichu paranjukondirikkunnathu.saayippaayaalum kaappiriyaayaalum indiakkarano chinaakkaarano aayaalum kalathinakathe ekathayulla vyavasthayilekku roopantharappettenkil maathrame akathu aayirikkuvaan kazhiyukayullu.illenkil puramthallappedum. ithellam parayunnathu manushyare bhayappeduthuvaanalla,manavaatti manavaalanodu cheruvaan yogyamaayi-bhaya-bhakthi-bahumaanangal ullavalaayi thanne orukkappedanam ennathukondaanu.adhikaara bhramavum bhahumaana dhahavum vedinju kristhuvinde ninna chumannukondu ororutharum koithinirangumenkil parisudhathmaavu koode nilkkum. aayudham moorchayullathaakum. vilavu muzhuvanum manavaalanu yogyamaayi kalappurayil sekharikkapedum. nalla oru maattathinaayi prarthikkaam.(N.B-2000 varsham pazhakkamullathu pentecosth sabhayaanu. backiyellam AD 315nu sesham mathramullathaanu)
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sam thomas (February 6, 2012)
By the term'Poorna suviswsha prakaasanam labhichittulla pentekosthukaar'I meant,those who follow what was taught and practiced by the apostles,not the'name sake Pentecostals'which we all may know today.
Naamadheya pentakosthukaar moorchayillatha aayudhangalumaayi koithinirangi vilavellam chathachu nasippichu kalayunnu. katholikkar muthal csi,mathommakkarum vividha kristhyan cultukalil pettukidakkunnavarum ulppade kristhyaanikal ennu avakasappedunnavaraayi keralathil thanne vilanju nilkkunna vilavu koythaal theeratha athrayadhikamille? ithil ninnellam koitheduthu kalappurakkakathu komduvannillenkil manavaalanu prayojanamillathe ellam nasichu pokukayille? arivaalinu moorchayillathathu kondalle koithu nadakkathathu?athukondalle koithinaraguvaan palarkkum dhairyamillathathu?moorchayillatha aayudhangalumaayi(pala upadesa vyaakhyaanangalumaayi) palarum odinadannu sabha paniyuvaan kaddinaadhwaanam cheyyunnathukondaanu onnum nadakkathathum adipidi koodi pirinjukondirikkunnathum.contd
By the term'Poorna suviswsha prakaasanam labhichittulla pentekosthukaar'I meant,those who follow what was taught and practiced by the apostles,not the'name sake Pentecostals'which we all may know today.
Naamadheya pentakosthukaar moorchayillatha aayudhangalumaayi koithinirangi vilavellam chathachu nasippichu kalayunnu. katholikkar muthal csi,mathommakkarum vividha kristhyan cultukalil pettukidakkunnavarum ulppade kristhyaanikal ennu avakasappedunnavaraayi keralathil thanne vilanju nilkkunna vilavu koythaal theeratha athrayadhikamille? ithil ninnellam koitheduthu kalappurakkakathu komduvannillenkil manavaalanu prayojanamillathe ellam nasichu pokukayille? arivaalinu moorchayillathathu kondalle koithu nadakkathathu?athukondalle koithinaraguvaan palarkkum dhairyamillathathu?moorchayillatha aayudhangalumaayi(pala upadesa vyaakhyaanangalumaayi) palarum odinadannu sabha paniyuvaan kaddinaadhwaanam cheyyunnathukondaanu onnum nadakkathathum adipidi koodi pirinjukondirikkunnathum.contd
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alex sebastian (February 6, 2012)
Suvisheesham prrasanghikkaan aalukaaleea aakarrshikkaatheea--- pinneea ootticchittu pidicchu--- maratthil keettiyittanoo--- suvisheshom parayandheea ? Sam brooo ninghal eeathu lookatthileea manushyanaa? Ninghatheea pentacosthu sbhayil athum nadakkum--- paksheea mattu madhasttharoodu suvesheshom parayanamenghil avareea aakarrshicchheea pattuu ! Ninghal maatthrom poorrnnaa susheesha velicchom kanndhavarenghill ninghadheea sabhakalil etthramaatthrom prrashananghall ennaaa ? Bro Sam, ellam koodi marikkan srramikkaruthue--- aadhyam suvisheshom parayuka--- ennittu saavakaasham upadheashaghall padippikkuka. aathmaavil puthuthayi jhanicchavan, aathmavil sheshu aanneeu ! aadhyam aathmeeya-lelitha-aharam aanu nallkeenddhathue ! ninghal kkoru kunjunddhaayaal--- aadhayattheea devasom thanneea kariyum coorum vilambumoo--- ???
Suvisheesham prrasanghikkaan aalukaaleea aakarrshikkaatheea--- pinneea ootticchittu pidicchu--- maratthil keettiyittanoo--- suvisheshom parayandheea ? Sam brooo ninghal eeathu lookatthileea manushyanaa? Ninghatheea pentacosthu sbhayil athum nadakkum--- paksheea mattu madhasttharoodu suvesheshom parayanamenghil avareea aakarrshicchheea pattuu ! Ninghal maatthrom poorrnnaa susheesha velicchom kanndhavarenghill ninghadheea sabhakalil etthramaatthrom prrashananghall ennaaa ? Bro Sam, ellam koodi marikkan srramikkaruthue--- aadhyam suvisheshom parayuka--- ennittu saavakaasham upadheashaghall padippikkuka. aathmaavil puthuthayi jhanicchavan, aathmavil sheshu aanneeu ! aadhyam aathmeeya-lelitha-aharam aanu nallkeenddhathue ! ninghal kkoru kunjunddhaayaal--- aadhayattheea devasom thanneea kariyum coorum vilambumoo--- ???
-1
a. s. mathew (February 6, 2012)
brother sam thomas: there is no harvest without the sowing of seeds. some are very keen to sow the seeds and waiting for the havest and they will not allow anybody to participate at the harvest season. in my outlook and genuine desire, i will do everything possible for the sowing season, and let somebody else undertake the harvest. dr. billy graham preached to millions of people around the world, and the harvest was undertaken by various denominations. everybody has a different calling in the ministry, and god has given various gifts to different people; but we all must work together focusing at the call of calvary in the kingdom business. we must put a chain to the spirit of denominationlism; if we have a real zeal, either in sowing or reaping.
brother sam thomas: there is no harvest without the sowing of seeds. some are very keen to sow the seeds and waiting for the havest and they will not allow anybody to participate at the harvest season. in my outlook and genuine desire, i will do everything possible for the sowing season, and let somebody else undertake the harvest. dr. billy graham preached to millions of people around the world, and the harvest was undertaken by various denominations. everybody has a different calling in the ministry, and god has given various gifts to different people; but we all must work together focusing at the call of calvary in the kingdom business. we must put a chain to the spirit of denominationlism; if we have a real zeal, either in sowing or reaping.
+1
sam thomas (February 6, 2012)
churukki paranjaal,suvisesha velayil vithayum koythum undu. vithakkunnavar aalukale aakarshichu kooti varuthi suvisesham kelppichu vithu vithachaal mathi.avar upadesangal prasangikkanamennilla. katholikkar ulpadeyullavare athinaayi deivam upayogikkunnundallo.ennaal vithachathu vilayumbol koithukaar koitheduthathine kalathil sookshikkuvaan yogyamaakki orukkiyedukkuvan bhaadhyastharaanu.poorna suvisesha prakaasanam labhichittulla pentecosthu kaaraanu ithu cheyyendathu. deivom sneham mathramaanu. rakshapraapikkuvaanulla vyavasthakalum valare lalithamaanallo.ennaal manavaatiye orukkunnathil kuravonnum varuthuvaan saadhikkukayilleennu mathram. manavaalan varumbol manavaatti eprakaaram kaanappetenamennu lekhanangalilum ezhuthiyittundallo. athilonnum valiya kaaryamilla ennu aarenkilum paranjaal enikkenthu virodham!!
churukki paranjaal,suvisesha velayil vithayum koythum undu. vithakkunnavar aalukale aakarshichu kooti varuthi suvisesham kelppichu vithu vithachaal mathi.avar upadesangal prasangikkanamennilla. katholikkar ulpadeyullavare athinaayi deivam upayogikkunnundallo.ennaal vithachathu vilayumbol koithukaar koitheduthathine kalathil sookshikkuvaan yogyamaakki orukkiyedukkuvan bhaadhyastharaanu.poorna suvisesha prakaasanam labhichittulla pentecosthu kaaraanu ithu cheyyendathu. deivom sneham mathramaanu. rakshapraapikkuvaanulla vyavasthakalum valare lalithamaanallo.ennaal manavaatiye orukkunnathil kuravonnum varuthuvaan saadhikkukayilleennu mathram. manavaalan varumbol manavaatti eprakaaram kaanappetenamennu lekhanangalilum ezhuthiyittundallo. athilonnum valiya kaaryamilla ennu aarenkilum paranjaal enikkenthu virodham!!
-1
alex sebastian (February 6, 2012)
i don't clearly understand what mr sam thomas means, buy all of his writing. the matters are not clearly conveyed, his thoughts lacks clarity.
"karrtthaavil santhooshipeen, eppozhum santthooshipeen ennaanue" --- daivom sneaham aakunnu--- ee daivom nammadhea utta saghiyaanue----- ennokke yaanu njaan manassilaakkittullathum--- and that is the way i prefer to start narrating gospel to people---
mr sam thomas, nninghal parayunnaa suvisheesham enntthoo -- manushyaneea daivatthil ninnu virattiyoodkkunnaa eenntthoo aanennu thoonnipookunnu!
i don't clearly understand what mr sam thomas means, buy all of his writing. the matters are not clearly conveyed, his thoughts lacks clarity.
"karrtthaavil santhooshipeen, eppozhum santthooshipeen ennaanue" --- daivom sneaham aakunnu--- ee daivom nammadhea utta saghiyaanue----- ennokke yaanu njaan manassilaakkittullathum--- and that is the way i prefer to start narrating gospel to people---
mr sam thomas, nninghal parayunnaa suvisheesham enntthoo -- manushyaneea daivatthil ninnu virattiyoodkkunnaa eenntthoo aanennu thoonnipookunnu!
0
sam thomas (February 5, 2012)
to Br. a.s.m - please read the word 'saw' used, as 'sow'. sorry.
to Br. a.s.m - please read the word 'saw' used, as 'sow'. sorry.
-1
sam thomas (February 5, 2012)
Contd.. This perfection can be achieved only through continuous and strict training as the trainees are in this world highly influenced and under the power of the God of the world.
That is why it is important at this end time ,if the Pentecostal sectors have accepted the assignment as 'reapers' they have to be strict to prepare the bride in perfection. A man, repented, saved and baptised will be in perfect holiness at that time. he can maintain it by asking pardon for his further falls to the Father in Jesus name. But to know the causes for fall, the Will of God about His bride should be made known to all,always. The perfection is only just a call away-' oh! Father pardon my falls in the name of thy son Jesus Christ'. So to be perfect is very simple thing. But to know where the perfection may lose ,it is important to acknowledge every one of those who knew and accepted Jesus, about the chances of fall. Here lays the importance of strict teaching of doctrines.
Contd.. This perfection can be achieved only through continuous and strict training as the trainees are in this world highly influenced and under the power of the God of the world.
That is why it is important at this end time ,if the Pentecostal sectors have accepted the assignment as 'reapers' they have to be strict to prepare the bride in perfection. A man, repented, saved and baptised will be in perfect holiness at that time. he can maintain it by asking pardon for his further falls to the Father in Jesus name. But to know the causes for fall, the Will of God about His bride should be made known to all,always. The perfection is only just a call away-' oh! Father pardon my falls in the name of thy son Jesus Christ'. So to be perfect is very simple thing. But to know where the perfection may lose ,it is important to acknowledge every one of those who knew and accepted Jesus, about the chances of fall. Here lays the importance of strict teaching of doctrines.
-1
sam thomas (February 5, 2012)
Br.a.s.m- Please do not think I am arguing or propagating for the most holiness.There is a saying"if you don't seek perfection you can never reach excellence".Jesus said (John,4:38)"I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors ". Also He said "I will build my church". most of us forget these and run to build the church at any cost.God has His own plan to build the bridal church of perfection. it is sure the bridal church will be of extreme perfection. god has many plans to spread the gospel. those who are appointed to saw the seed are not entrusted to be strict in doctrines. They have only to preach Jesus to those, His name and purpose is unknown. It is not the case of reapers. my request is, we must be confident about Gods plan in sawing and reaping.reaped should be in the bridal church of perfection which is "A garden enclosed Is my sister,my spouse, a spring shut up, a fountain sealed"(s o s.4:12). i
Br.a.s.m- Please do not think I am arguing or propagating for the most holiness.There is a saying"if you don't seek perfection you can never reach excellence".Jesus said (John,4:38)"I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors ". Also He said "I will build my church". most of us forget these and run to build the church at any cost.God has His own plan to build the bridal church of perfection. it is sure the bridal church will be of extreme perfection. god has many plans to spread the gospel. those who are appointed to saw the seed are not entrusted to be strict in doctrines. They have only to preach Jesus to those, His name and purpose is unknown. It is not the case of reapers. my request is, we must be confident about Gods plan in sawing and reaping.reaped should be in the bridal church of perfection which is "A garden enclosed Is my sister,my spouse, a spring shut up, a fountain sealed"(s o s.4:12). i
-1
a. s. mathew (February 5, 2012)
contd:- i am not prophesying or repeating somebody's prophecy, but our god is a loving god, sent a minor prophet jonah to the sin-sick city of nineveh. if so, the same god sent his only begotten son for the sins of the world, will give atleast one chance to everybody to hear the great but simple message of the gospel. please understand that god loves the atheists-communists-hindus-muslims-buddihsts-jains, but we have terribly failed to love them, but looked at them with different eye. there is a greater spiritual hunger in the hearts of people, not in the u.s. or europe, but in india, other asian and south american countries. in my missionary trips, i have felt their spiritual hunger face to face, so strongly believe and expect a greater revival to take place in india before our eyes.
contd:- i am not prophesying or repeating somebody's prophecy, but our god is a loving god, sent a minor prophet jonah to the sin-sick city of nineveh. if so, the same god sent his only begotten son for the sins of the world, will give atleast one chance to everybody to hear the great but simple message of the gospel. please understand that god loves the atheists-communists-hindus-muslims-buddihsts-jains, but we have terribly failed to love them, but looked at them with different eye. there is a greater spiritual hunger in the hearts of people, not in the u.s. or europe, but in india, other asian and south american countries. in my missionary trips, i have felt their spiritual hunger face to face, so strongly believe and expect a greater revival to take place in india before our eyes.
+1
a. s. mathew (February 5, 2012)
brothr sam thomas: i don't like arguments and fighting for minor
doctrines. when i read your comment, i could realize the average
mentality of the vast majority of the ultra holiness people.
there are two kinds of people, either extroverts or introverts.
the introvert spiritual nature of the believers is the greatest
handicap and barricade in the evangelization process. they are very
happy that they got salvation and eternal life, and trying very hard
to keep it safe playing all the available lessons learnt in the bible and force others to follow those lessons. take our homeland india,
millions of people have not heard the name of jesus even for the first
time. if we don't have any burden to reach them some way, we are
totally selfish in our spirituality. many people prayed for spreading the gospel in the communist countries, and finally god
answered the prayers. the russian empire was crashed without an
ext
brothr sam thomas: i don't like arguments and fighting for minor
doctrines. when i read your comment, i could realize the average
mentality of the vast majority of the ultra holiness people.
there are two kinds of people, either extroverts or introverts.
the introvert spiritual nature of the believers is the greatest
handicap and barricade in the evangelization process. they are very
happy that they got salvation and eternal life, and trying very hard
to keep it safe playing all the available lessons learnt in the bible and force others to follow those lessons. take our homeland india,
millions of people have not heard the name of jesus even for the first
time. if we don't have any burden to reach them some way, we are
totally selfish in our spirituality. many people prayed for spreading the gospel in the communist countries, and finally god
answered the prayers. the russian empire was crashed without an
ext
+2
a. s. mathew (February 5, 2012)
brother sam thomas: i was not talking about discernment but about a different subject. if you can get a copy of the book "jesus in beijing", you can read more about what is happening in the communist countries. when mao took control of china in 1948, there were only 5 million christians, and they went underground and the church in china began to grow. now, there are more than 120 million christians, and it is predicted that the christian population would be 600 million by the year 2050. my friend went to china on his job assignment in a small city where he met many indian students. they took him to a church for the foreign christians which was totally packed. when the service was over, the chines people came in, and it was like a mad house because the rush was so severe. it is terribly sad that some believers think that "jesus" in their monopoly and nobody can meet him, but only themselves, their church and family.
brother sam thomas: i was not talking about discernment but about a different subject. if you can get a copy of the book "jesus in beijing", you can read more about what is happening in the communist countries. when mao took control of china in 1948, there were only 5 million christians, and they went underground and the church in china began to grow. now, there are more than 120 million christians, and it is predicted that the christian population would be 600 million by the year 2050. my friend went to china on his job assignment in a small city where he met many indian students. they took him to a church for the foreign christians which was totally packed. when the service was over, the chines people came in, and it was like a mad house because the rush was so severe. it is terribly sad that some believers think that "jesus" in their monopoly and nobody can meet him, but only themselves, their church and family.
+1
sam thomas (February 5, 2012)
If we cannot discern the spirit world,we can keep hope in many such dreams. one lady dreamed india will be fully evangelised by 2020 and the deiva daasanmaar will rule India there after. so many so called Pentecostal leaders gone behind that vision.then they forgot this world is kept for fire and the kingdom of Christ is not to be realised in this world which is under the power of the devil.(1Jn,5:19;2Pet.3:9-13;2 Pet.3:7).No doubt,Gods plan is very clear. There will be no compromise.But any one can go to any extend with compromise to have a peaceful life in this world which may be switched off at any time.Those who really love God and wish to enjoy the promise of salvation have to keep themselves,ignoring all the arguments of worldly wise people.They can't discern the spirit world. They are indirectly working for the devil.Communism is an ideology of physical liberation.Christianity is the ideology of spiritual liberation.These will always go in parallel and never coincide anywhere.
If we cannot discern the spirit world,we can keep hope in many such dreams. one lady dreamed india will be fully evangelised by 2020 and the deiva daasanmaar will rule India there after. so many so called Pentecostal leaders gone behind that vision.then they forgot this world is kept for fire and the kingdom of Christ is not to be realised in this world which is under the power of the devil.(1Jn,5:19;2Pet.3:9-13;2 Pet.3:7).No doubt,Gods plan is very clear. There will be no compromise.But any one can go to any extend with compromise to have a peaceful life in this world which may be switched off at any time.Those who really love God and wish to enjoy the promise of salvation have to keep themselves,ignoring all the arguments of worldly wise people.They can't discern the spirit world. They are indirectly working for the devil.Communism is an ideology of physical liberation.Christianity is the ideology of spiritual liberation.These will always go in parallel and never coincide anywhere.
-1
sam thomas (February 5, 2012)
ithu malarppodikkarande swapnam !!!!
ithu malarppodikkarande swapnam !!!!
-1
a. s. mathew (February 5, 2012)
some good and surprsing news for our attention. even though a communist follower can't be a believer in god, now it is being changed all over the world. in china, the communist party leaders are coming to christ and they would like to change china as a communist country. they told the times reporter located in hong kong that, both the u.s.a and great britain became world powers as christian countries. if china is expected to be a world power, then china must be a christian country. this week's news from kerala was surprising. at first mr. pinarai vijayan said that jesus christ was the the greatest revolutionary in the world and the cpm is interested to work with his revolutionary ideology. also the former communist chief minister mr. achudanandan repeated the name of jesus christ. now, we have a great opening to evangelize the communist followers of kerala.
some good and surprsing news for our attention. even though a communist follower can't be a believer in god, now it is being changed all over the world. in china, the communist party leaders are coming to christ and they would like to change china as a communist country. they told the times reporter located in hong kong that, both the u.s.a and great britain became world powers as christian countries. if china is expected to be a world power, then china must be a christian country. this week's news from kerala was surprising. at first mr. pinarai vijayan said that jesus christ was the the greatest revolutionary in the world and the cpm is interested to work with his revolutionary ideology. also the former communist chief minister mr. achudanandan repeated the name of jesus christ. now, we have a great opening to evangelize the communist followers of kerala.
+1
a. s. mathew (February 5, 2012)
Contd:-
The believers must be caught up with the real vision about practical
Christianity. It is not a self-enriching format wrapped up in
man-made holiness, but a divine attitude of touching the lives of
other people we meet every day. We are the light and salt of the
earth. The Church has a spiritual and moral responsibility to
wipe the tears of the widow and give a piece of bread to an orphan
child. The first and foremost duty of the Church is to spread the
gospel of Christ, which will transform the heart and the society.
Look, what is happening in the Church world today. More programmes-
conferences-building construction-adding more to the building-
spliting the congregations-sowing the seeds of divisions-adding
newly invented sins to the list and expand the topic as a the subject
of the sermon etc ............
Contd:-
The believers must be caught up with the real vision about practical
Christianity. It is not a self-enriching format wrapped up in
man-made holiness, but a divine attitude of touching the lives of
other people we meet every day. We are the light and salt of the
earth. The Church has a spiritual and moral responsibility to
wipe the tears of the widow and give a piece of bread to an orphan
child. The first and foremost duty of the Church is to spread the
gospel of Christ, which will transform the heart and the society.
Look, what is happening in the Church world today. More programmes-
conferences-building construction-adding more to the building-
spliting the congregations-sowing the seeds of divisions-adding
newly invented sins to the list and expand the topic as a the subject
of the sermon etc ............
+1
a. s. mathew (February 5, 2012)
BROTHER JAMES: Thank you so sincerely for your kind words of
appreciations. I am not blaming anybody because the power of
traditions applied through religion is a mega force, and the followers
won't question their blind faith, whether it is rational or divine.
There is a publication from Kottayam, it is called "Dwothyam". It is
openly questioning, what is happening in the Marthoma Church.
More than forty years back, while Churches of all denominations
(Catholic Church used to get money from foreign countries) had less
money, the religious hierarcy and the believers were more spiritual
and dependent upon GOD. Now, the economic prosperity has completely
changed the outlook of all denominations, and they are all advancing
and working like secular corporations like AT&T-GE-TATA- or any other
corporation. It is the high time to have a greater spiritual
awakening in all denominations.
BROTHER JAMES: Thank you so sincerely for your kind words of
appreciations. I am not blaming anybody because the power of
traditions applied through religion is a mega force, and the followers
won't question their blind faith, whether it is rational or divine.
There is a publication from Kottayam, it is called "Dwothyam". It is
openly questioning, what is happening in the Marthoma Church.
More than forty years back, while Churches of all denominations
(Catholic Church used to get money from foreign countries) had less
money, the religious hierarcy and the believers were more spiritual
and dependent upon GOD. Now, the economic prosperity has completely
changed the outlook of all denominations, and they are all advancing
and working like secular corporations like AT&T-GE-TATA- or any other
corporation. It is the high time to have a greater spiritual
awakening in all denominations.
+1
joy chembakasseril. (February 4, 2012)
to bro james - a sizable number of penticostals over the years got to a certain stereo-typed way of thinking about faith and beliefs and when they read the bible they go by the literary word meaning of what they read! even when somebody points out the folly of that situation, for some the ego gets in over their wisdom to accept things in the proper way and they think its holy that way. we find similar ones in episcopals too, but the pentacostals by far out-number them !for some old habits never die! i am not saying that the literary word meaning should not be taken into account, but that in some circumstances we have apply the relative context into account, except for comandments or else it don't make no-sense. the esscripts in the bible are to be read and interpreted based on its relative context sometimes. this is because, the holy-spirit version is translated into a worldly language through interpretions and the word-meanings has limitations in its expressions. thanks,god bless!
to bro james - a sizable number of penticostals over the years got to a certain stereo-typed way of thinking about faith and beliefs and when they read the bible they go by the literary word meaning of what they read! even when somebody points out the folly of that situation, for some the ego gets in over their wisdom to accept things in the proper way and they think its holy that way. we find similar ones in episcopals too, but the pentacostals by far out-number them !for some old habits never die! i am not saying that the literary word meaning should not be taken into account, but that in some circumstances we have apply the relative context into account, except for comandments or else it don't make no-sense. the esscripts in the bible are to be read and interpreted based on its relative context sometimes. this is because, the holy-spirit version is translated into a worldly language through interpretions and the word-meanings has limitations in its expressions. thanks,god bless!
+1
a. s. mathew (February 4, 2012)
BROTHER THOMAS VEMMELIL: Yes, it was Mahakavi K.V. Simon of Edyarnmula.
BROTHER THOMAS VEMMELIL: Yes, it was Mahakavi K.V. Simon of Edyarnmula.
+1
james (February 4, 2012)
I really appreciate Mr. Joy Chempakaseril & Mr. AS Mathew's explanations/comments and views about this topic. Yukthisahamayi karyangale apagradhikkunnavar Pentacostilum undennathil .. Praise the Lord
I really appreciate Mr. Joy Chempakaseril & Mr. AS Mathew's explanations/comments and views about this topic. Yukthisahamayi karyangale apagradhikkunnavar Pentacostilum undennathil .. Praise the Lord
+1
james (February 4, 2012)
@Darwin . i had already read kodithottam's article. it reveals only a tipical pentacostal man's intolerance towards other human being. Joy C and some others are explained enough their views about this topic. moroever nobody gives a reply/comment against my latest post in this page
@Darwin . i had already read kodithottam's article. it reveals only a tipical pentacostal man's intolerance towards other human being. Joy C and some others are explained enough their views about this topic. moroever nobody gives a reply/comment against my latest post in this page
+2
truth (February 3, 2012)
Why my reply to Darwin is not posted? Why is Believer Journal being partial at times?
Why my reply to Darwin is not posted? Why is Believer Journal being partial at times?
0
thomas vemmelil (February 3, 2012)
Darwin:- It isworth reading Anil Koditnottam's article "Marmom Mahathiyam Pentecost" published in Christava Chinta. Thank you Darwin for exposing that article in this column. This is the actual situation of Pentecostalism today. IPC has been degraded to the utter most!!
Darwin:- It isworth reading Anil Koditnottam's article "Marmom Mahathiyam Pentecost" published in Christava Chinta. Thank you Darwin for exposing that article in this column. This is the actual situation of Pentecostalism today. IPC has been degraded to the utter most!!
+1
darwin (February 3, 2012)
i like the article by anil kodithottam in Chintha about the Thirumeni (Page 12). I Wonder what Joy C would comment on it if he reads it. http://www.tsbalan.com/news12/chintha2.pdf
i like the article by anil kodithottam in Chintha about the Thirumeni (Page 12). I Wonder what Joy C would comment on it if he reads it. http://www.tsbalan.com/news12/chintha2.pdf
+4
joy chembakasseril. (February 1, 2012)
@ abraham varghese.... Nobody in IPC saw a prominence in the appearance of the Thirumeni or the Politician at the convention. The Thirumeni did not ask anybody to kiss his hands there. We are not concerned what happens in their church, if its something wrong they are responsible and they themselves need to correct it or else they are going to suffer the consequences.
The one's who saw a prominence in the Thirumeni and the Politician are the un-Godly, because they did not see the prominence of the Almighty God, they are also disrespecting the prominence of the Almighty God.
We got several of them walking around with a Bible and no real spirituality in their lives !!!
@ abraham varghese.... Nobody in IPC saw a prominence in the appearance of the Thirumeni or the Politician at the convention. The Thirumeni did not ask anybody to kiss his hands there. We are not concerned what happens in their church, if its something wrong they are responsible and they themselves need to correct it or else they are going to suffer the consequences.
The one's who saw a prominence in the Thirumeni and the Politician are the un-Godly, because they did not see the prominence of the Almighty God, they are also disrespecting the prominence of the Almighty God.
We got several of them walking around with a Bible and no real spirituality in their lives !!!
+1
thomas vemmelil (January 31, 2012)
Abraham Varghese:- "There is only one Thirumeni and that is our Lord and Lord alone". What about those thousands of Thirumenies known as "Reverends" in Pentecostalism ??
Abraham Varghese:- "There is only one Thirumeni and that is our Lord and Lord alone". What about those thousands of Thirumenies known as "Reverends" in Pentecostalism ??
+9
joy chembakasseril. (January 31, 2012)
To Sam Thomas- who wants to listen to your gospel, if its not done in a certain way. Kuzhalil ettaalonnum patteedeea vaaeell nuvrillaa, uukhum! You are speaking to the bare wall, like a -----y screaming in the wilderness!!! Uh
To Sam Thomas- who wants to listen to your gospel, if its not done in a certain way. Kuzhalil ettaalonnum patteedeea vaaeell nuvrillaa, uukhum! You are speaking to the bare wall, like a -----y screaming in the wilderness!!! Uh
+1
sam thomas (January 31, 2012)
please let the generous and broad minded gentle men to preach their socialist gospel,acceptable to all including thirumenies, not hurting anybody,but helping others, feeding the poor, caring the sick etc. etc. Let those appointed vide Ephe.4:11 to preach the gospel of salvation in full meaning.
please let the generous and broad minded gentle men to preach their socialist gospel,acceptable to all including thirumenies, not hurting anybody,but helping others, feeding the poor, caring the sick etc. etc. Let those appointed vide Ephe.4:11 to preach the gospel of salvation in full meaning.
-5
joy chembakasseril. (January 31, 2012)
to thomas vemmelil- contd-1- the truths in the bible and the proclamation of it should not be compromised, but my difference with you is how you do it! can you tell me why are the pentecostals not so welcome were ever they go!
once i tried everything with the priesthood of a certain church to get a clergy from a pentacostal denomination for a chance to speak on the stage. "they told me no way". i was a bit disturbed and i tried to find out the reason why this big priest of that church is so rude to me! so one of the believers of that church who was friendly with me told me that they had a precedence were when given a chance for a similar one, the proclamation of his truth came on, while preaching, and it ruined the whole atmosphere of the church because it was done in a certain way! this is were i have a problem, it should be done in a certain way and not the certain way some of them does!!!
to thomas vemmelil- contd-1- the truths in the bible and the proclamation of it should not be compromised, but my difference with you is how you do it! can you tell me why are the pentecostals not so welcome were ever they go!
once i tried everything with the priesthood of a certain church to get a clergy from a pentacostal denomination for a chance to speak on the stage. "they told me no way". i was a bit disturbed and i tried to find out the reason why this big priest of that church is so rude to me! so one of the believers of that church who was friendly with me told me that they had a precedence were when given a chance for a similar one, the proclamation of his truth came on, while preaching, and it ruined the whole atmosphere of the church because it was done in a certain way! this is were i have a problem, it should be done in a certain way and not the certain way some of them does!!!
0
abraham varghese (January 31, 2012)
There is only one Thirumeni and that is the Lord and Lord alone. Anyone mortal who holds the title of a Thirumeni and gets kissed on the hands by ordinary people (in the sect that he leads) and whose picture is considered as a divine sacrament - should not and must not hold a place of prominence in a Pentecostal gathering! Period.
There is only one Thirumeni and that is the Lord and Lord alone. Anyone mortal who holds the title of a Thirumeni and gets kissed on the hands by ordinary people (in the sect that he leads) and whose picture is considered as a divine sacrament - should not and must not hold a place of prominence in a Pentecostal gathering! Period.
-2
sanjaree (January 31, 2012)
to all the intellectuals on this forum can somebody explain how we have arrived at the conclusion that thirumeni is not saved or baptised. @abraham varghese & thomas vemmeli-its easy to sound nasty and if u were a believer as u say - u wud have reflected that in ur comments than trying to be sarcastic,so,mind u it reflects the christ in u.u sound rascist and wonder who are you to judge people,please refer to the bible - judgement belongs to god and not to you.if u cannot respect people around and want to consider ur way or highway,god bless,over all very poor reflection of a christian.
leave the poor thirumeni, u have guys like m kunjappy,suresh babu,ka abraham,tinu george,to name a few,who shud listen to the gospel u preach here and i dare u guys will ever do that. so then the best bet is to shut up and mind ones own ways. swandam kannile karad irunnitt velaveruday kannil ley kol edukuvaan ningaaley aar aanu niyoghichedhu thanks
to all the intellectuals on this forum can somebody explain how we have arrived at the conclusion that thirumeni is not saved or baptised. @abraham varghese & thomas vemmeli-its easy to sound nasty and if u were a believer as u say - u wud have reflected that in ur comments than trying to be sarcastic,so,mind u it reflects the christ in u.u sound rascist and wonder who are you to judge people,please refer to the bible - judgement belongs to god and not to you.if u cannot respect people around and want to consider ur way or highway,god bless,over all very poor reflection of a christian.
leave the poor thirumeni, u have guys like m kunjappy,suresh babu,ka abraham,tinu george,to name a few,who shud listen to the gospel u preach here and i dare u guys will ever do that. so then the best bet is to shut up and mind ones own ways. swandam kannile karad irunnitt velaveruday kannil ley kol edukuvaan ningaaley aar aanu niyoghichedhu thanks
+2
joy chembakasseril. (January 31, 2012)
to thomas vemmelil- i agree with you on that aspect the truths in the bible should not be compromised! i am a kind of person who respect both episcopals and pentacostals, but i have a little problem with the 'marxist party' in the penticostals.[here marxist party stands for a certain behavior and is a synonym, not the real communist party of india]. i leave it to your wisdom to find out what that is!
you see there is a certain way we put up in a society, discernment can only be done on a personnel basis, but when we come to the community, as a community, sometimes and not always, we have to mingle with others and by not compromising on our discernment!eg: most of us go to our work places and we have to mingle with others the worldy, but we do that by not sacrificing our discernment! a convention is a public place were we expect the others to attend, its not just meant for the church! that's where we get a chance to speak to them the gospel !!! contd-1
to thomas vemmelil- i agree with you on that aspect the truths in the bible should not be compromised! i am a kind of person who respect both episcopals and pentacostals, but i have a little problem with the 'marxist party' in the penticostals.[here marxist party stands for a certain behavior and is a synonym, not the real communist party of india]. i leave it to your wisdom to find out what that is!
you see there is a certain way we put up in a society, discernment can only be done on a personnel basis, but when we come to the community, as a community, sometimes and not always, we have to mingle with others and by not compromising on our discernment!eg: most of us go to our work places and we have to mingle with others the worldy, but we do that by not sacrificing our discernment! a convention is a public place were we expect the others to attend, its not just meant for the church! that's where we get a chance to speak to them the gospel !!! contd-1
+2
thomas vemmelil (January 31, 2012)
Bro. Chembakasseril:-The way you understand the verse now in Galatians 1:10 is quite right.The gospel preached by the Apostle Paul was the unique gospel. It was the gospel of Christ (Gal. 1:7).Those who preach a so-called gospel that is different from the unique gospel corrupt and distort the gospel of Christ and should be accursed (1:7-9). We need to see that compromising is man's way of neutralizing things; man always likes to neutralize the truth.God's truth is absolute; if it is yes, it is yes, and if no, no. It should never be neutralized.Every compromise is a neutralization. Man thinks that it does not matter very much if the church has a name and that we do not need to be so particular as long as we are zealous for the Lord.This is wrong because the truth should never be compromised; the truth is always absolute. Does Thirumeni speak the unique Gospel of the apostles? If you say yes, I have nothing to say further. IPC has now turned to her own vomit, an utter most degradation!
Bro. Chembakasseril:-The way you understand the verse now in Galatians 1:10 is quite right.The gospel preached by the Apostle Paul was the unique gospel. It was the gospel of Christ (Gal. 1:7).Those who preach a so-called gospel that is different from the unique gospel corrupt and distort the gospel of Christ and should be accursed (1:7-9). We need to see that compromising is man's way of neutralizing things; man always likes to neutralize the truth.God's truth is absolute; if it is yes, it is yes, and if no, no. It should never be neutralized.Every compromise is a neutralization. Man thinks that it does not matter very much if the church has a name and that we do not need to be so particular as long as we are zealous for the Lord.This is wrong because the truth should never be compromised; the truth is always absolute. Does Thirumeni speak the unique Gospel of the apostles? If you say yes, I have nothing to say further. IPC has now turned to her own vomit, an utter most degradation!
+3
joy chembakasseril. (January 31, 2012)
@ abraham varghese- ho ho hoo, here we go another one- quote- 'there is a fine line between respecting and honoring,you have to respect all but honor is reserved for a few' wow what a baloni! so you are telling everybody, off all the people sitting there at the convention, only the one's on the stage gets the honor! i think your are the biggest comedian! honor and respect are two facets of the same behavior! quote, 'the thirumeni and matha mayi is the same', you must be nuts to say that!i suspect you holding that book, somebody must have put you upfront,but it is not going to work! you are only making stray remarks! i see you making a commend about the meat and i see the butcher in you! you are only making stray statements meant for a personnel remark,and is not worth my attention, its not going to work very well!
@ abraham varghese- ho ho hoo, here we go another one- quote- 'there is a fine line between respecting and honoring,you have to respect all but honor is reserved for a few' wow what a baloni! so you are telling everybody, off all the people sitting there at the convention, only the one's on the stage gets the honor! i think your are the biggest comedian! honor and respect are two facets of the same behavior! quote, 'the thirumeni and matha mayi is the same', you must be nuts to say that!i suspect you holding that book, somebody must have put you upfront,but it is not going to work! you are only making stray remarks! i see you making a commend about the meat and i see the butcher in you! you are only making stray statements meant for a personnel remark,and is not worth my attention, its not going to work very well!
0
abraham varghese (January 31, 2012)
As usual..Chembakasseril goes on a long winded one sided jarring conversation with his own self- resonating with the sound of his own voice - filled with nonsensical arguments- focusing on anything and everything besides the points raised...just for the sake of argument and I suspect seeing his name on the comments section!! Besides providing us with a stand up comedy role, it would be good once in a while to comment when u have some meat in ur comments! There are Billions of Christians in the world. That doesn't necessarily make them "saved". And to that extent there is no difference between such a christian and a non -Christian. To be saved, the basics lie in obeying the commandments set by the Lord including accepting Jesus as personal Savior and following up with water baptism and following the obeying of these sacraments, come the living a spiritually holy life with Christ. The Thirumeni has not observed the basics. So, he isnt any different from a non-believer.
As usual..Chembakasseril goes on a long winded one sided jarring conversation with his own self- resonating with the sound of his own voice - filled with nonsensical arguments- focusing on anything and everything besides the points raised...just for the sake of argument and I suspect seeing his name on the comments section!! Besides providing us with a stand up comedy role, it would be good once in a while to comment when u have some meat in ur comments! There are Billions of Christians in the world. That doesn't necessarily make them "saved". And to that extent there is no difference between such a christian and a non -Christian. To be saved, the basics lie in obeying the commandments set by the Lord including accepting Jesus as personal Savior and following up with water baptism and following the obeying of these sacraments, come the living a spiritually holy life with Christ. The Thirumeni has not observed the basics. So, he isnt any different from a non-believer.
0
joy chembakasseril. (January 31, 2012)
to abraham varghese and like minded parties- you are nobody to judge others about who they are and how they are because of the simply reason you are only a human being.
There may be many many thinks in your life that may be unrighteous before God,think about it, being saved, depends on your staying in the grace of God. You have to stay righteous in your path according to Biblical standards. In other words repentance is a continuous process.You can never turn around to another and say you are not saved,because you are human,may be in God's thinking,they might be the better one's,you can see many similarities about this in the Bible, ofcourse you can preach the gospel!Sai Baba/Matha Amruthanandamayi and The Thirumeni/The Politician are not alike, that's were you went wrong.
This is a Christian Platfrom and it is not likely Hindus like Sai Baba and Matha Amruthanandamayi is going to grace the occasion.
Discernment should be in your daily lives and not where you preach t
to abraham varghese and like minded parties- you are nobody to judge others about who they are and how they are because of the simply reason you are only a human being.
There may be many many thinks in your life that may be unrighteous before God,think about it, being saved, depends on your staying in the grace of God. You have to stay righteous in your path according to Biblical standards. In other words repentance is a continuous process.You can never turn around to another and say you are not saved,because you are human,may be in God's thinking,they might be the better one's,you can see many similarities about this in the Bible, ofcourse you can preach the gospel!Sai Baba/Matha Amruthanandamayi and The Thirumeni/The Politician are not alike, that's were you went wrong.
This is a Christian Platfrom and it is not likely Hindus like Sai Baba and Matha Amruthanandamayi is going to grace the occasion.
Discernment should be in your daily lives and not where you preach t
-3
abraham varghese (January 31, 2012)
To Joy Chembakasseril and other supporters who are in favor of honoring the Thirumeni on the podium - my query is... what if the Late Sai Baba or Matha Amrithanadamayi were to grace the occasion, would they feel as driven to honor them on a public platform and assign the stage to them for a sermon delivery???. I guess not! All of them - the Thirumeni and Matha Amrithanadamayi are no different - both are unsaved - different varying degrees of knowledge of the Savior but unsaved nonetheless! There is a fine line between respecting an individual and assigning honor to them. You have to respect all but honor is reserved for a few. Discernment was missing in this occasion.
To Joy Chembakasseril and other supporters who are in favor of honoring the Thirumeni on the podium - my query is... what if the Late Sai Baba or Matha Amrithanadamayi were to grace the occasion, would they feel as driven to honor them on a public platform and assign the stage to them for a sermon delivery???. I guess not! All of them - the Thirumeni and Matha Amrithanadamayi are no different - both are unsaved - different varying degrees of knowledge of the Savior but unsaved nonetheless! There is a fine line between respecting an individual and assigning honor to them. You have to respect all but honor is reserved for a few. Discernment was missing in this occasion.
+5
paul parampil (January 31, 2012)
@ sam thomas---- 'any publisher must have a target......' not in the comments column. If that's the case, them why they say-- 'the views and opinions expressed in the comments column are strictly those of the comment authors and do not necessarily reflect and represent the views and opinion of BJ-Journal'??? comments column should be free for comments without interruption, or else what fun is it in reading them, when they only publish on side and not the others! After its all written in civil language,may be a little humor to it, right? What Joy Chembakasseril, A S Mathew, Thepraize and people are trying to convey the fact in they don't accept dumping The Thirumeni and the politician as non-belieivers, because we are humans and we are unable to judge them. According to them the only need to be a believer is being saved- which is repent on sins and accept Jesus as their Savior, which is right, and if you say that's not good enough- who is going to accept it ???
@ sam thomas---- 'any publisher must have a target......' not in the comments column. If that's the case, them why they say-- 'the views and opinions expressed in the comments column are strictly those of the comment authors and do not necessarily reflect and represent the views and opinion of BJ-Journal'??? comments column should be free for comments without interruption, or else what fun is it in reading them, when they only publish on side and not the others! After its all written in civil language,may be a little humor to it, right? What Joy Chembakasseril, A S Mathew, Thepraize and people are trying to convey the fact in they don't accept dumping The Thirumeni and the politician as non-belieivers, because we are humans and we are unable to judge them. According to them the only need to be a believer is being saved- which is repent on sins and accept Jesus as their Savior, which is right, and if you say that's not good enough- who is going to accept it ???
+2
james (January 31, 2012)
Cntd... If the Pentecostal leadership believes that their followers are true believers, then ban this Pennukanal from their Churches. Mar Chrisostom neyo, oru politician neyo ulkollan kazhiyatha IPC convension nte prasakthi enthanu. Paul 1.Cor.13 oradyam muzhuvan viswasathekal prasakthi paraspara snehathinanu ennu sthapikkunnu. Pentacostkaranu oradhyathekkal prasakthi avidunnum ividunnum edukkunna vakyathinakunnu!!!! NB: ente oru bandhu marthoma vittu Pastor ayi. Kalyana samayam ayappool pala aalochanakalum thalli, koottathil oru converted Christian alochanayum vannu. Dosham parayaruthallo aa penninte karyathil pastorkum marthomayilulla pastor nte Appanum orotta abhiprayam ayirunnu !!!!!
Cntd... If the Pentecostal leadership believes that their followers are true believers, then ban this Pennukanal from their Churches. Mar Chrisostom neyo, oru politician neyo ulkollan kazhiyatha IPC convension nte prasakthi enthanu. Paul 1.Cor.13 oradyam muzhuvan viswasathekal prasakthi paraspara snehathinanu ennu sthapikkunnu. Pentacostkaranu oradhyathekkal prasakthi avidunnum ividunnum edukkunna vakyathinakunnu!!!! NB: ente oru bandhu marthoma vittu Pastor ayi. Kalyana samayam ayappool pala aalochanakalum thalli, koottathil oru converted Christian alochanayum vannu. Dosham parayaruthallo aa penninte karyathil pastorkum marthomayilulla pastor nte Appanum orotta abhiprayam ayirunnu !!!!!
+3
james (January 31, 2012)
cntd..
rakshikkappetta mathapithakkalude makan/makal, rakshikkappettavan - veendum janichavan -- vivaham – daivam yojippichathu -- rakshikkappettavan ennu uttama bodhyam ulla oruvanu rakshikkappetta oruvale velkunnathinu pennukanal ennathinte prasakthi enthanu? rakhikkappettu ennu avakashappedunna oruvale bharya akkunnathinu selectionnte avashyam undo? ranni ipc sabhayil ulla oruvale kettunnathinu thiruvalla ipc sabhayil ulla oruvanu avalude believer enna identity mathram pore? peenukanalinte aavashyam undo? as he is choosing his wife from his own community. vivaham pala thudakkathinteyun naandi aakunnu. oru puthiya jeevithathinte -- udumbathinte -- ee thudakkathil thane oruvan proclaims that he is not a believer. otherwise, if he is true believer he will only consider that his soul mate must be a believer only. our considerations are in hight 5.5, fair, basically from syrian orthodox family etc.
contd....
cntd..
rakshikkappetta mathapithakkalude makan/makal, rakshikkappettavan - veendum janichavan -- vivaham – daivam yojippichathu -- rakshikkappettavan ennu uttama bodhyam ulla oruvanu rakshikkappetta oruvale velkunnathinu pennukanal ennathinte prasakthi enthanu? rakhikkappettu ennu avakashappedunna oruvale bharya akkunnathinu selectionnte avashyam undo? ranni ipc sabhayil ulla oruvale kettunnathinu thiruvalla ipc sabhayil ulla oruvanu avalude believer enna identity mathram pore? peenukanalinte aavashyam undo? as he is choosing his wife from his own community. vivaham pala thudakkathinteyun naandi aakunnu. oru puthiya jeevithathinte -- udumbathinte -- ee thudakkathil thane oruvan proclaims that he is not a believer. otherwise, if he is true believer he will only consider that his soul mate must be a believer only. our considerations are in hight 5.5, fair, basically from syrian orthodox family etc.
contd....
+3
james (January 31, 2012)
i will explain with a small example inwhich what mr.a.s mathew and joy chembakasseril are trying to convey to sam, vemelil, kunjachan, jijo etc. they can't digest the fact that the thirumeni's presence at ipc stage as they all consider that he is not a believer. eee parayappedunna believers/viswasikal (ipc and all other pentacostals) avarude makkalude kalyana karyam varumbol pennukanal ennoru chadangu enthinu vakkunnu. (a boy selects his soul mate after seeing an average 5-6 girls normally ) aabharanam upekshikkan parayunna oru pastorum nalithuvare pennukanal upekshikkanam ennu paranju kettittundo??
cntd...
i will explain with a small example inwhich what mr.a.s mathew and joy chembakasseril are trying to convey to sam, vemelil, kunjachan, jijo etc. they can't digest the fact that the thirumeni's presence at ipc stage as they all consider that he is not a believer. eee parayappedunna believers/viswasikal (ipc and all other pentacostals) avarude makkalude kalyana karyam varumbol pennukanal ennoru chadangu enthinu vakkunnu. (a boy selects his soul mate after seeing an average 5-6 girls normally ) aabharanam upekshikkan parayunna oru pastorum nalithuvare pennukanal upekshikkanam ennu paranju kettittundo??
cntd...
+3
sam thomas (January 31, 2012)
Any publisher must have a target on what he try to reveal to his readers and to guide them. Especially as it is a matter of eternal life, the publication based on bible must go to the extreme of the scripture, gradually, suitably to swallow, on a strong and justifiable base. If believers journal has a target to attract and guide the readers,n the right path I appreciate them.
Any publisher must have a target on what he try to reveal to his readers and to guide them. Especially as it is a matter of eternal life, the publication based on bible must go to the extreme of the scripture, gradually, suitably to swallow, on a strong and justifiable base. If believers journal has a target to attract and guide the readers,n the right path I appreciate them.
-1
joy chembakasseril. (January 30, 2012)
To BABU- thank you for supporting my cause! All I am saying is, when we devote a certain time writing for the paper, the authorities has to acknowledge our labor by publishing it, besides we are writing something to convey an idea. The time spend on it should be respected! The journal or paper shouldn't join hands with somebody, just because they are calling them and begging for support. The journal or paper should stay impartial. Besides our comments are adding publicity to the paper, because the comments add curiosity in reading. We all know that and they know that too!
To BABU- thank you for supporting my cause! All I am saying is, when we devote a certain time writing for the paper, the authorities has to acknowledge our labor by publishing it, besides we are writing something to convey an idea. The time spend on it should be respected! The journal or paper shouldn't join hands with somebody, just because they are calling them and begging for support. The journal or paper should stay impartial. Besides our comments are adding publicity to the paper, because the comments add curiosity in reading. We all know that and they know that too!
+2
joy chembakasseril. (January 30, 2012)
to thomas vemmelil- quote- gal 1:10-- "for am i now trying to win the favor of people, or god ? or am i striving to please people? if i were still trying to please people, i would not be a slave to christ"--- what this scripture tells me is that apostle paul is not going to 'compromise on the scriptures' about proclamation of the truth! he was talking pleasing in that sense! besides it is better being a pleasing preacher than being an arrogant one with no audience !!!
to thomas vemmelil- quote- gal 1:10-- "for am i now trying to win the favor of people, or god ? or am i striving to please people? if i were still trying to please people, i would not be a slave to christ"--- what this scripture tells me is that apostle paul is not going to 'compromise on the scriptures' about proclamation of the truth! he was talking pleasing in that sense! besides it is better being a pleasing preacher than being an arrogant one with no audience !!!
+1
joy chembakasseril. (January 30, 2012)
to thomas vemmelil- You don't have to please anybody or proclaim anything. After all who are you to proclaim anything? Its already in the Bible and anybody can read and understand it. Here proclaim means speak loud-- But my thinking is who is there to hear you if nobody wants to listen to you! You don't have to dig Bible or ask any assistance to prove it to me. What you saying is still out of context. Speaking with a sense of appeal, doesn't mean pleasing anybody! And you went all the way to galathians to prove me this!Its simple common sense! If you only have a bare wall to speak at- you are like a donkey screaming in the wilderness!!!!!huh
to thomas vemmelil- You don't have to please anybody or proclaim anything. After all who are you to proclaim anything? Its already in the Bible and anybody can read and understand it. Here proclaim means speak loud-- But my thinking is who is there to hear you if nobody wants to listen to you! You don't have to dig Bible or ask any assistance to prove it to me. What you saying is still out of context. Speaking with a sense of appeal, doesn't mean pleasing anybody! And you went all the way to galathians to prove me this!Its simple common sense! If you only have a bare wall to speak at- you are like a donkey screaming in the wilderness!!!!!huh
+1
thomas vemmelil (January 30, 2012)
Joy Chembakasseril:- "The proclamation of truth should be done with a sense of appeal to the audience or else it would end up as a donkey screaming in the wilderness!" Wonder where in the Bible you received this strange idea from? Any of the apostles of the first century had this kind of a pattern of proclaiming the truth?? In Galatians 1:10 apostle Paul vehemently states "For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bond servant to God." Paul made this statement in a context to preaching the Gospel. Do you think apostle Paul was a "donkey screaming in the wilderness" as he made this statement? Truth is always Truth, and it does not need any appealing sense for expression. Jesus Himself was Truth, He was crucified. Apostles of the first century were persecuted and eventually killed just for proclaiming the Truth. Many of the saints through out the centuries have sacrificed their lives for this cause. To you they are all only "donkeys screaming in the wilderness"! Very strange!
Joy Chembakasseril:- "The proclamation of truth should be done with a sense of appeal to the audience or else it would end up as a donkey screaming in the wilderness!" Wonder where in the Bible you received this strange idea from? Any of the apostles of the first century had this kind of a pattern of proclaiming the truth?? In Galatians 1:10 apostle Paul vehemently states "For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bond servant to God." Paul made this statement in a context to preaching the Gospel. Do you think apostle Paul was a "donkey screaming in the wilderness" as he made this statement? Truth is always Truth, and it does not need any appealing sense for expression. Jesus Himself was Truth, He was crucified. Apostles of the first century were persecuted and eventually killed just for proclaiming the Truth. Many of the saints through out the centuries have sacrificed their lives for this cause. To you they are all only "donkeys screaming in the wilderness"! Very strange!
+3
babu (January 30, 2012)
@Joy Chemakaserill. I have also stated some facts and truth. My comment also had not appeared yet. I doubt there is politics inside believers journal too. Why would they not post comment with no cuss words or anything. Just truth in simple english.
@Joy Chemakaserill. I have also stated some facts and truth. My comment also had not appeared yet. I doubt there is politics inside believers journal too. Why would they not post comment with no cuss words or anything. Just truth in simple english.
+2
joy chembskasseril. (January 30, 2012)
to bj-journal- you are not publishing my other comment, i have sent that same comment to you several times now, obviously i know some kind of game is going on. this is not good journalism., and i not waisting time on this, i got several other places were i can write!
to bj-journal- you are not publishing my other comment, i have sent that same comment to you several times now, obviously i know some kind of game is going on. this is not good journalism., and i not waisting time on this, i got several other places were i can write!
+1
joy chembakasseril. (January 30, 2012)
@ cherian- who screamed, you are the one screaming now!
@ cherian- who screamed, you are the one screaming now!
0
cherian (January 30, 2012)
if you have no doubt, then why you are screaming!!!
if you have no doubt, then why you are screaming!!!
0
joy chembakasseril. (January 30, 2012)
to cherian- you are right about that and I have no doubt in my mind!!!!!
to cherian- you are right about that and I have no doubt in my mind!!!!!
-2
cherian (January 30, 2012)
It is clear who is screaming here.
It is clear who is screaming here.
-1
joy chembakasseril. (January 29, 2012)
to who ever it may concern-- The proclamation of truth should be done with a sense of appeal to the audience or else it would end up as a donkey screaming in the wilderness!
to who ever it may concern-- The proclamation of truth should be done with a sense of appeal to the audience or else it would end up as a donkey screaming in the wilderness!
0
thomas vemmelil (January 29, 2012)
joy chembakasseril:- i agree with you brother, i do understand your difficulty in grasping what apostle paul was talking in 1cor. 2:14-15. because paul says in verse 14 " but the natural man does not receive the things of the spirit of god, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."as you have said these things will not make any sense to you!! i too agree with you.
joy chembakasseril:- i agree with you brother, i do understand your difficulty in grasping what apostle paul was talking in 1cor. 2:14-15. because paul says in verse 14 " but the natural man does not receive the things of the spirit of god, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."as you have said these things will not make any sense to you!! i too agree with you.
0
joy chembakasseril. (January 29, 2012)
to who ever it may concern-- i have noticed two kinds of teachers in the class-room, generally!
first set of teachers, they are very knowledgeable, they come to class-room well prepared and also have an earnest desire to teach too. when we look into their eyes, their eyes are crimson red, due to the previous nights preparation for the classes and they can hardly smile! all of their labor is towards teaching the children and their passion for what they doing.
the second set of teachers, they are also knowledgeable and also has an earnest desire to teach too! while the first set of teachers after walking in, would get straight on to the subject,--the latter one's start the class with a smile and a joke about anything that everybody likes and then they get into the subject.
whom do you think the students pay more attention, think about it!
the proclamation of truth should be done with a sense of appeal to audience or else it would end up like a donk
to who ever it may concern-- i have noticed two kinds of teachers in the class-room, generally!
first set of teachers, they are very knowledgeable, they come to class-room well prepared and also have an earnest desire to teach too. when we look into their eyes, their eyes are crimson red, due to the previous nights preparation for the classes and they can hardly smile! all of their labor is towards teaching the children and their passion for what they doing.
the second set of teachers, they are also knowledgeable and also has an earnest desire to teach too! while the first set of teachers after walking in, would get straight on to the subject,--the latter one's start the class with a smile and a joke about anything that everybody likes and then they get into the subject.
whom do you think the students pay more attention, think about it!
the proclamation of truth should be done with a sense of appeal to audience or else it would end up like a donk
0
joy chembakasseril. (January 29, 2012)
to thomas vemmelil- you are talking about the narration about spiritual wisdom by apostle paul- how do you relate that to what, i was talking all this time- seperation and holiness. most of them here in this segment was talking about seperation and holiness pertaining to the visitors on stage at the convention. i think you lost your focused of attention and gone out of track. you are not comprehending to what i am saying- you are simple quoting out of context. the bible is a christians-law book, just like a law book in the court. what happens when the laws are read out of context, the lawyer or judge lose respect ! you don't make any sense to me at this time and please excuse me for saying that. god bless !
to thomas vemmelil- you are talking about the narration about spiritual wisdom by apostle paul- how do you relate that to what, i was talking all this time- seperation and holiness. most of them here in this segment was talking about seperation and holiness pertaining to the visitors on stage at the convention. i think you lost your focused of attention and gone out of track. you are not comprehending to what i am saying- you are simple quoting out of context. the bible is a christians-law book, just like a law book in the court. what happens when the laws are read out of context, the lawyer or judge lose respect ! you don't make any sense to me at this time and please excuse me for saying that. god bless !
-4
joy chembakasseril. (January 28, 2012)
to who ever it may concern- discern means perceiving or foreseeing by sight, sense or reasoning and the motivation to it is staying away from it. we can disassociate ourselves from others beliefs and character, but to the true biblical sense we are not supposed to discern them with a motivation to avoid them. we should always have a concern for others no matter who they are, because we are responsible for their salvation ! seperation must be shown in our daily lives from the worldly and not at the convention centre where we are supposed to win souls, we need to be among them. nobody made an agreement or compromise to the visitors on the stage at the convention as to their beliefs. so there is no relevance to that part of discussion. i am of the opinion that, real spirituality is not staying away, but is being with them with a sense of concern as to preach the gospel at anytime ! god bless !
to who ever it may concern- discern means perceiving or foreseeing by sight, sense or reasoning and the motivation to it is staying away from it. we can disassociate ourselves from others beliefs and character, but to the true biblical sense we are not supposed to discern them with a motivation to avoid them. we should always have a concern for others no matter who they are, because we are responsible for their salvation ! seperation must be shown in our daily lives from the worldly and not at the convention centre where we are supposed to win souls, we need to be among them. nobody made an agreement or compromise to the visitors on the stage at the convention as to their beliefs. so there is no relevance to that part of discussion. i am of the opinion that, real spirituality is not staying away, but is being with them with a sense of concern as to preach the gospel at anytime ! god bless !
-4
thomas vemmelil (January 28, 2012)
Joy Chembakasseril:- Yes, the Gospel is for preaching to the world. Apostle Paul when first preached the Gospel in Corinth, the Corinthians were of the world. But later when he wrote the epistle to the church in Corinth he addressed them as the saints in Corinth. In 1Cor.2:14-15 the context was not preaching the Gospel, but it was an epistle to the Saints. Here apostle, as a spiritual man speaking spiritual things by the spiritual words to the spiritual people. So the spiritual things must be spoken by the spiritual words to a spiritual man.
Joy Chembakasseril:- Yes, the Gospel is for preaching to the world. Apostle Paul when first preached the Gospel in Corinth, the Corinthians were of the world. But later when he wrote the epistle to the church in Corinth he addressed them as the saints in Corinth. In 1Cor.2:14-15 the context was not preaching the Gospel, but it was an epistle to the Saints. Here apostle, as a spiritual man speaking spiritual things by the spiritual words to the spiritual people. So the spiritual things must be spoken by the spiritual words to a spiritual man.
+5
sam thomas (January 28, 2012)
Contd....On this advice many are saying ' don't criticise others'. Please understand telling the truth written in the scripture is not a criticism forbidden in the scripture but is a process in-line with the Will of God, to proclaim the truth to save them from the secret trap locked them. God wants His people to proclaim the truth uninterrupted in any situation,that is what somebody is doing through these columns.
Contd....On this advice many are saying ' don't criticise others'. Please understand telling the truth written in the scripture is not a criticism forbidden in the scripture but is a process in-line with the Will of God, to proclaim the truth to save them from the secret trap locked them. God wants His people to proclaim the truth uninterrupted in any situation,that is what somebody is doing through these columns.
-4
sam thomas (January 28, 2012)
the comments appearing in these columns proudly declare that there are so many well educated and prominent persons who believe they are saved but do not know the process of salvation described in the word of god.no human being except holy spirit can correct them as they believe they are saved and they are running to save others.they do not know the mission of the gospel is a war with the lord of the world, using the scripture. true god will never hurt any body for denying him, but will wait patiently. but the god of the world will fight against those who leave him or those stand for the real salvation, directly. the only demand of the god of the world is 'you do not criticise others',quoting the word of god. 'if you want to leave me you go but don't try to take others by criticising them and saying, you are in the wrong path and it is with the devil'. contd....
the comments appearing in these columns proudly declare that there are so many well educated and prominent persons who believe they are saved but do not know the process of salvation described in the word of god.no human being except holy spirit can correct them as they believe they are saved and they are running to save others.they do not know the mission of the gospel is a war with the lord of the world, using the scripture. true god will never hurt any body for denying him, but will wait patiently. but the god of the world will fight against those who leave him or those stand for the real salvation, directly. the only demand of the god of the world is 'you do not criticise others',quoting the word of god. 'if you want to leave me you go but don't try to take others by criticising them and saying, you are in the wrong path and it is with the devil'. contd....
-1
joy chembakasseril. (January 28, 2012)
to thomas vemmelil- so what's the point, i don't think you are comprehending to what i am saying, we had been back and forth on this few times you just keep on talking about spirituality, i know better ! i did not accuse you of 'judging" anybody, if that's what you understood ! the meaning of "discern" is foresee with sight, sense and reasoning ! i see you using this particular word at many places, let me leave that point, i am not going any further ! the spiritual things must be spoken by the spiritual words to the spiritual man, what do you mean, how about preaching few words of gospel to the worldly ?
to thomas vemmelil- so what's the point, i don't think you are comprehending to what i am saying, we had been back and forth on this few times you just keep on talking about spirituality, i know better ! i did not accuse you of 'judging" anybody, if that's what you understood ! the meaning of "discern" is foresee with sight, sense and reasoning ! i see you using this particular word at many places, let me leave that point, i am not going any further ! the spiritual things must be spoken by the spiritual words to the spiritual man, what do you mean, how about preaching few words of gospel to the worldly ?
0
thomas vemmelil (January 28, 2012)
Bro. Joy Chembakasseril:- continue.....Today many Christians can be compared to cows listening to music: they have no appreciation or discernment of what they hear. These Christians can readily understand worldly things or natural things, but they are not able to discern spiritual things.
Bro. Joy Chembakasseril:- continue.....Today many Christians can be compared to cows listening to music: they have no appreciation or discernment of what they hear. These Christians can readily understand worldly things or natural things, but they are not able to discern spiritual things.
+7
thomas vemmelil (January 28, 2012)
bro. joy chembakasseril:- did i say we could judge others? discerning is not judging. i quoted from 1cor. 2:14-15 which stress the spiritual object, that is, a spiritual man, not a soulish one, who is able to discern the spiritual things. both the means and the object need to be spiritual. the spiritual things must be spoken by the spiritual words to the spiritual man.if we would discern spiritual things, we must know that we have a spirit. then we need to realize that the spirit of god dwells in our spirit and go on to exercise our spirit to discern spiritual things in a spiritual way. i say again that i do respect thirumeni as a well known person in the society and i truly respect many of our politicians as well. but when it comes to the matter of spirituality we need discernment. today many christians can be compared to cows listening to music: they have no appreciation or discernment of what they hear. these christians can readily understand worldly things or natural things, but th
bro. joy chembakasseril:- did i say we could judge others? discerning is not judging. i quoted from 1cor. 2:14-15 which stress the spiritual object, that is, a spiritual man, not a soulish one, who is able to discern the spiritual things. both the means and the object need to be spiritual. the spiritual things must be spoken by the spiritual words to the spiritual man.if we would discern spiritual things, we must know that we have a spirit. then we need to realize that the spirit of god dwells in our spirit and go on to exercise our spirit to discern spiritual things in a spiritual way. i say again that i do respect thirumeni as a well known person in the society and i truly respect many of our politicians as well. but when it comes to the matter of spirituality we need discernment. today many christians can be compared to cows listening to music: they have no appreciation or discernment of what they hear. these christians can readily understand worldly things or natural things, but th
+5
joy chembakasseril. (January 28, 2012)
to thomas vemmelil- we don't have a right to discern others as a beleiver in the true spirit of bible, not as a church and even not as an individual, we may diassociate from their character and beliefs ! the reason is we are responsible for their salvation. we have no right to judge others, because we are humans and has limitations in ourselves. we do not know a person's present state of mind, even though we make calculations. the almighty knows everything, he is the alpha , the omega. i know you were little bit disturbed about the thirumeni and the politician given a center stage. that was only a convention and not a church worship! perhaps they might had an ernest desire to know, what gospel, others have to say, we don't know that. perhaps that could turn out to be their last attempt, and we are responsible for them too. when you give them a chance in your midst, you get a chance to talk in their midst. perhaps that might be the reason why they were invited.
to thomas vemmelil- we don't have a right to discern others as a beleiver in the true spirit of bible, not as a church and even not as an individual, we may diassociate from their character and beliefs ! the reason is we are responsible for their salvation. we have no right to judge others, because we are humans and has limitations in ourselves. we do not know a person's present state of mind, even though we make calculations. the almighty knows everything, he is the alpha , the omega. i know you were little bit disturbed about the thirumeni and the politician given a center stage. that was only a convention and not a church worship! perhaps they might had an ernest desire to know, what gospel, others have to say, we don't know that. perhaps that could turn out to be their last attempt, and we are responsible for them too. when you give them a chance in your midst, you get a chance to talk in their midst. perhaps that might be the reason why they were invited.
-3
philip parampil. (January 28, 2012)
to sam thomas, - what you talkin is a bunch of baloni- you know no better than anybody ! don't pretend like something. oruvan paapanghal aaettu paranjhaal,athunu pinnaleea yesuvineea rashithaavaayi sweekaricchyaal avan rakshikkapettu. athinu oru sammskaarameea yullu ! aaa ha ha ha atleast you accept that there are some 'false pentecostals', etheghaneea sambhavicchu ? daivatthil nonnulla, seperationum, isolationum konndaayirikkum, alleea.
to sam thomas, - what you talkin is a bunch of baloni- you know no better than anybody ! don't pretend like something. oruvan paapanghal aaettu paranjhaal,athunu pinnaleea yesuvineea rashithaavaayi sweekaricchyaal avan rakshikkapettu. athinu oru sammskaarameea yullu ! aaa ha ha ha atleast you accept that there are some 'false pentecostals', etheghaneea sambhavicchu ? daivatthil nonnulla, seperationum, isolationum konndaayirikkum, alleea.
+5
sam thomas (January 27, 2012)
pavam James.
pavam James.
-6
sanjaree (January 27, 2012)
@james,saar paranjadh valerey correct annu,last 200 alla 500+ years ill nammudaey kochu kerathaill ninn aarum poyadh aayee thonnun illya, swargam pendacosth kaar theeer azhudee vech irrikugey aanu,avar mathram yaey pogoo ollooo,nalla pendhacosth aaganum engill,vyabircharikennum,allengil quotation sangavum aayeeee nalla adupam vennum,allengil vella paavapetta vishwaasi galludey panam thirich marikkenum,idh koodaadh nalla poll anyabhasha- adh theri aayaalum saaram illya - samsaarikennum. idhupol nashicha oru kooteraey verey engum mashii ittu nokiyal pollum kaanuga illya,ennaal matt ullavarey vidhikuvaan ee kootar ottum puragillum allya.sam thomas.thomas vemmeli,kunjachan,ivar okaey 21aam nootannd illaey jeevikunna vishudhanmaar aanu,swargathilley taakol ivarudey kaiyiil oond.so nammudey koot ulla paaapigelk praveashanam vennum engil ivaroo maayee bendhapaedugaey vazhiollu.
@james,saar paranjadh valerey correct annu,last 200 alla 500+ years ill nammudaey kochu kerathaill ninn aarum poyadh aayee thonnun illya, swargam pendacosth kaar theeer azhudee vech irrikugey aanu,avar mathram yaey pogoo ollooo,nalla pendhacosth aaganum engill,vyabircharikennum,allengil quotation sangavum aayeeee nalla adupam vennum,allengil vella paavapetta vishwaasi galludey panam thirich marikkenum,idh koodaadh nalla poll anyabhasha- adh theri aayaalum saaram illya - samsaarikennum. idhupol nashicha oru kooteraey verey engum mashii ittu nokiyal pollum kaanuga illya,ennaal matt ullavarey vidhikuvaan ee kootar ottum puragillum allya.sam thomas.thomas vemmeli,kunjachan,ivar okaey 21aam nootannd illaey jeevikunna vishudhanmaar aanu,swargathilley taakol ivarudey kaiyiil oond.so nammudey koot ulla paaapigelk praveashanam vennum engil ivaroo maayee bendhapaedugaey vazhiollu.
+2
james (January 27, 2012)
@thomas vemmeli ,sam thomas, jijo & KUNJachan
hente ammo.. churukkiparnjal kazhina 200 kollathinumunpu ee itta vattatheennu aarum swargathil poyittilla...
ee vruthiketta paathirimarum mattum Vedaposthakam Malayalathil vivarthanam cheithenkilum valla prayojanom undayo....?
@thomas vemmeli ,sam thomas, jijo & KUNJachan
hente ammo.. churukkiparnjal kazhina 200 kollathinumunpu ee itta vattatheennu aarum swargathil poyittilla...
ee vruthiketta paathirimarum mattum Vedaposthakam Malayalathil vivarthanam cheithenkilum valla prayojanom undayo....?
+4
sam thomas (January 26, 2012)
Please do not underrate the bridal church and the Word of God on the basis of the life and activities of the namesake Pentecostal( Naamadheya penthacost)but see the Word of God speak to individual. Our role model is Jesus Christ and then St.Paul. We are individually responsible to ensure our seat in eternity during this life. There after nothing is under our control. No chance for any arguments anywhere. So to be safe be very careful to be sensitive to be 'yes' to all 'yes' in the scripture and 'No' to all 'No'. Do not try to find out meanings through the surroundings and culture we are living. All cultures are to be reformed to the culture prescribed in the scripture, the culture in Heaven. This reformation is not easy, but require sincere effort. To achieve this target He has appointed 5 groups of trainers (Eph.4:11,12) with definite assignment. Even if the appointed are failed it will not be a clause for our justification 'cause the written Word of God is in our hands.
Please do not underrate the bridal church and the Word of God on the basis of the life and activities of the namesake Pentecostal( Naamadheya penthacost)but see the Word of God speak to individual. Our role model is Jesus Christ and then St.Paul. We are individually responsible to ensure our seat in eternity during this life. There after nothing is under our control. No chance for any arguments anywhere. So to be safe be very careful to be sensitive to be 'yes' to all 'yes' in the scripture and 'No' to all 'No'. Do not try to find out meanings through the surroundings and culture we are living. All cultures are to be reformed to the culture prescribed in the scripture, the culture in Heaven. This reformation is not easy, but require sincere effort. To achieve this target He has appointed 5 groups of trainers (Eph.4:11,12) with definite assignment. Even if the appointed are failed it will not be a clause for our justification 'cause the written Word of God is in our hands.
-4
thomas vemmelil (January 26, 2012)
a s mathew:- who is that t m simon sir of brethren church you are talking about? is that what you mean mahakavi k v simon sir???
a s mathew:- who is that t m simon sir of brethren church you are talking about? is that what you mean mahakavi k v simon sir???
0
joy chembakasseril. (January 26, 2012)
@ tonie z- moneea kadha aariyaatheea kaddakkalleea ! DAIVOM neerittu vannu thhanneea chevikkupidicchu narakatthil konddidum, Njaan paranjheekkaam!You just showed your arrogance now! Athenghanaa parayunnathu pidikkaatheea varumboozhanoo ? Njaan saddharanaa anghaneea ponnattharam samsaarikkarillaa, nirrbhannddicchaa mattrom! Etthu ponnattharam alla, ollakariyanghalla, DAIVOM saasshi !
@ tonie z- moneea kadha aariyaatheea kaddakkalleea ! DAIVOM neerittu vannu thhanneea chevikkupidicchu narakatthil konddidum, Njaan paranjheekkaam!You just showed your arrogance now! Athenghanaa parayunnathu pidikkaatheea varumboozhanoo ? Njaan saddharanaa anghaneea ponnattharam samsaarikkarillaa, nirrbhannddicchaa mattrom! Etthu ponnattharam alla, ollakariyanghalla, DAIVOM saasshi !
+4
thepraize (January 26, 2012)
@sam mathew: i was looking around this journal and i could see the marvellous works of our dear pentecostal friends who claim to be holy and separated.wonderful, i never realized untill i read ur post,that this is what is known as separation way to go....
Its not understanding the difference between Pentecostal faith or Episcopal faith,its about leadng a blemish free life in the sight of God,rather than been called a pastor during the day and a whore in the night or a goon in white clothes,please put your mind focussed on the Bible than harping what Pentecostals are all about.
I know i was very rude,not my style of writing but the topic of dicsussion is not who is superior to who,rather how can we present ourselves as a tolerant community with Christ like character,again apologies to all readers who might be offended from this post.
@sam mathew: i was looking around this journal and i could see the marvellous works of our dear pentecostal friends who claim to be holy and separated.wonderful, i never realized untill i read ur post,that this is what is known as separation way to go....
Its not understanding the difference between Pentecostal faith or Episcopal faith,its about leadng a blemish free life in the sight of God,rather than been called a pastor during the day and a whore in the night or a goon in white clothes,please put your mind focussed on the Bible than harping what Pentecostals are all about.
I know i was very rude,not my style of writing but the topic of dicsussion is not who is superior to who,rather how can we present ourselves as a tolerant community with Christ like character,again apologies to all readers who might be offended from this post.
+5
sam mathew (January 26, 2012)
The comments of Br. Sam Thomas is apt for those, do not know the difference between the Pentecostal faith and religious Christian faith but proud of the education Bishops/Achens gained.
"sam thomas (16 hours ago) 2-3 wise men who are really ignorant of the Apostolic teaching on salvation, faith declaration, faith baptism, assembly of saints,separation etc; are talking something about everything . It will not tamper a true believer.They may be talking from their experience from those false Pentecostals and leaders they met in their life. They will not be taught the truth by any writing unless God gives them a revelation. If they really pray, God will give them too the revelation on His plan on salvation, the life and blessing"
The comments of Br. Sam Thomas is apt for those, do not know the difference between the Pentecostal faith and religious Christian faith but proud of the education Bishops/Achens gained.
"sam thomas (16 hours ago) 2-3 wise men who are really ignorant of the Apostolic teaching on salvation, faith declaration, faith baptism, assembly of saints,separation etc; are talking something about everything . It will not tamper a true believer.They may be talking from their experience from those false Pentecostals and leaders they met in their life. They will not be taught the truth by any writing unless God gives them a revelation. If they really pray, God will give them too the revelation on His plan on salvation, the life and blessing"
-7
thepraize (January 26, 2012)
@sam mathew, i am so excited to find a truly holy person like you,frankly all my years i have never had an opportunity to meet up people of your holiness,but let me tell you, i DO NOT wish to follow the Christ you follow,cuz i cannot keep the holiness and separation that you have been practising all these years,please remain separated,even when Christ comes.
@sam mathew, i am so excited to find a truly holy person like you,frankly all my years i have never had an opportunity to meet up people of your holiness,but let me tell you, i DO NOT wish to follow the Christ you follow,cuz i cannot keep the holiness and separation that you have been practising all these years,please remain separated,even when Christ comes.
+6
thepraize (January 26, 2012)
@thomas vemmeli: you should understand episcopal churches follow a different chintadhara when it comes to matters like immersion baptism and just cuz, they think different,need not mean they should be treated as outcast,what shameful thought.your christ is not good if he does not teach tolerance and acceptance,and all your so called pentecostal belief is in vain. @tonie z:there are ways to present your thoughts across to people on a social web,and do not forget,that speaks volumes about your christian character,forget a good educated upbringing. i always exhort people in the love of christ,please be civil to say the least when you express your difference of opinion and do not consider this platform to excercise vengeance.we are all children of god,from the same father and we need to carry that dignity,irrespective of the fact, that we follow different streams of thoughts.its a shame people like you bring disgrace to our heavenly father thru words and deeds.strange what god you follow.
@thomas vemmeli: you should understand episcopal churches follow a different chintadhara when it comes to matters like immersion baptism and just cuz, they think different,need not mean they should be treated as outcast,what shameful thought.your christ is not good if he does not teach tolerance and acceptance,and all your so called pentecostal belief is in vain. @tonie z:there are ways to present your thoughts across to people on a social web,and do not forget,that speaks volumes about your christian character,forget a good educated upbringing. i always exhort people in the love of christ,please be civil to say the least when you express your difference of opinion and do not consider this platform to excercise vengeance.we are all children of god,from the same father and we need to carry that dignity,irrespective of the fact, that we follow different streams of thoughts.its a shame people like you bring disgrace to our heavenly father thru words and deeds.strange what god you follow.
+5
a. s. mathew (January 26, 2012)
brother thomas vemmeli: i am not questioning your explanation disapproving the bishop's visit. in mathew 19:21 and mark 10:21, we read about a wealthy person who came across jesus christ with a genuine and wholesome intention to follow jesus christ, for the rest of his life. when our lord applied the mri test on his real mind and intentions, the smart young man was totally failed. but we read about another person who was afraid to meet jesus face to face, so he had a hard time to climb the tree to get a glimpse of jesus. in luke 19:8, zacchaeus made a voluntary decision to give away everything back to the people. how many holiness leaders of our churches will go straight to zacchaeus home to eat on the same day? if jesus is asking the mega million ministers riding in foreign cars and living in posh houses " you sell everything and give to the poor", what will be response? the same question might be asked to many rich ministers to test their loyalty to jesus!
brother thomas vemmeli: i am not questioning your explanation disapproving the bishop's visit. in mathew 19:21 and mark 10:21, we read about a wealthy person who came across jesus christ with a genuine and wholesome intention to follow jesus christ, for the rest of his life. when our lord applied the mri test on his real mind and intentions, the smart young man was totally failed. but we read about another person who was afraid to meet jesus face to face, so he had a hard time to climb the tree to get a glimpse of jesus. in luke 19:8, zacchaeus made a voluntary decision to give away everything back to the people. how many holiness leaders of our churches will go straight to zacchaeus home to eat on the same day? if jesus is asking the mega million ministers riding in foreign cars and living in posh houses " you sell everything and give to the poor", what will be response? the same question might be asked to many rich ministers to test their loyalty to jesus!
+6
thepraizee (January 26, 2012)
@thomas vemmelil, i hate to be rude but recieve me in the right spirit,bible speaks empahtically that faith without works is dead,may i ask you what have these pentecostal comunities and pastors done good to the kerala society in the last 80 years,other than preaching and getting controversial, i do not want to quote names but if u want to know the people who carry the bible and walk around like clowns i rather not follow their preaching,the easiest activity for anybody is to preach and sorry to say pentecostal communities can exercise that anayaasam,if you claim that you are the child of god and cannot accept a fellow being,there cannot be a greater mockery of what you profess, i am sorry to state this,contd..
@thomas vemmelil, i hate to be rude but recieve me in the right spirit,bible speaks empahtically that faith without works is dead,may i ask you what have these pentecostal comunities and pastors done good to the kerala society in the last 80 years,other than preaching and getting controversial, i do not want to quote names but if u want to know the people who carry the bible and walk around like clowns i rather not follow their preaching,the easiest activity for anybody is to preach and sorry to say pentecostal communities can exercise that anayaasam,if you claim that you are the child of god and cannot accept a fellow being,there cannot be a greater mockery of what you profess, i am sorry to state this,contd..
+3
tonie z (January 26, 2012)
@Joy Chembakaseril: What a pongan you are...reading all you comments here...you exhibit the spiritual arrogance in you.
thanks for letting us all know how great you are and what a big connections you have.
"njaan twenty four hours phonenum cheviyil vacchu bada addikkunna party alla"...but you are 24 hours computeril believer's journal sitil irikkunna aal aanu.
@Joy Chembakaseril: What a pongan you are...reading all you comments here...you exhibit the spiritual arrogance in you.
thanks for letting us all know how great you are and what a big connections you have.
"njaan twenty four hours phonenum cheviyil vacchu bada addikkunna party alla"...but you are 24 hours computeril believer's journal sitil irikkunna aal aanu.
-5
joy joseph (January 26, 2012)
thirumeni must have had great theological eduction from great seminaries...but what good is that for him if he doesn't believe in the adult water baptism. by putting such a person on stage what is ipc trying to convey here?...they don't mind ipc believers attending marthoma church and taking child baptism? what if the thirumeni preached the marthoma theology on the stage? will the ipc thirumenies sitting and laughing in the stage would have stopped him from speaking at that point??
thirumeni must have had great theological eduction from great seminaries...but what good is that for him if he doesn't believe in the adult water baptism. by putting such a person on stage what is ipc trying to convey here?...they don't mind ipc believers attending marthoma church and taking child baptism? what if the thirumeni preached the marthoma theology on the stage? will the ipc thirumenies sitting and laughing in the stage would have stopped him from speaking at that point??
-7
a. s. mathew (January 26, 2012)
contd:- dharayil enthu" (what i should do for you in this earth). later on that rev. m.v. george became the bishop of the orthodox church. his whole mission of life was to serve the poorest of the poor. in his younger days, he met the christian leaders of other denominations like t.m. simon sir of the brethren church, dr. stanly jones-the anglican bishops etc. if he were not selected as a bishop of the church, he might have been the billy graham of india with the non-denominational vision in reaching out thousands of people for jesus christ. as believers and followers of christ, we must follow jesus christ and must respect god's children in all denominations, but the trend has changed to follow our own denominational leaders as another diety. i pray that the young generation may be caught up with a new vision to see this fact of life.
contd:- dharayil enthu" (what i should do for you in this earth). later on that rev. m.v. george became the bishop of the orthodox church. his whole mission of life was to serve the poorest of the poor. in his younger days, he met the christian leaders of other denominations like t.m. simon sir of the brethren church, dr. stanly jones-the anglican bishops etc. if he were not selected as a bishop of the church, he might have been the billy graham of india with the non-denominational vision in reaching out thousands of people for jesus christ. as believers and followers of christ, we must follow jesus christ and must respect god's children in all denominations, but the trend has changed to follow our own denominational leaders as another diety. i pray that the young generation may be caught up with a new vision to see this fact of life.
+2
a. s. mathew (January 26, 2012)
brother thepraize: i do agree with you 100% that the bishops and achens of various episcopal churches are far greatly educated in theology-religious history and a whole lot of subjects associated with the ministry, went to well recognized theological seminaries of india and abroad. i have the greatest respect for mar osththeos thirumeni of the orthodox church. when i read his life story in the "new vision" magazine, it was very inspiring. going to kottayam in my younger days was like a feeling of going to holy land. i went there in 1956 when billy graham came there for the first time, then the second trip was in 1957 to see the ethiopian emperor came to visit the orthodox church. he was very late to arrive due to the flight delay from bombay. then a young priest came to the pulpit and started singing a song in malayalam "ninaku vendi njan contd:-
brother thepraize: i do agree with you 100% that the bishops and achens of various episcopal churches are far greatly educated in theology-religious history and a whole lot of subjects associated with the ministry, went to well recognized theological seminaries of india and abroad. i have the greatest respect for mar osththeos thirumeni of the orthodox church. when i read his life story in the "new vision" magazine, it was very inspiring. going to kottayam in my younger days was like a feeling of going to holy land. i went there in 1956 when billy graham came there for the first time, then the second trip was in 1957 to see the ethiopian emperor came to visit the orthodox church. he was very late to arrive due to the flight delay from bombay. then a young priest came to the pulpit and started singing a song in malayalam "ninaku vendi njan contd:-
+6
thomas vemmelil (January 26, 2012)
Thepraize:- Yes ofcourse, "all these thirumenies and achens have a well structured theological seminary background" They study how to be social, how to contact people, and how to understand human psychology. Seminaries also pay a great deal of attention to the methods of preaching the gospel, to sermons, and to managing the church. Even though the seminary students have the Bible in their hands, they may not understand the things in the Bible. They know what the Bible says concerning Abraham and Moses, but they do not fully believe or receive what is recorded in the Bible.These points show that Christianity is poor because it does not teach people to enter into the truth and revelation of the Bible.The marvelous thing is that although most of those who were greatly used by the Lord throughout the generations did not come out of seminaries. I love and even respect Thirumeni as a person, yet I do hate his nature of dissimilar yoking with the world. Because he is a bishop.
Thepraize:- Yes ofcourse, "all these thirumenies and achens have a well structured theological seminary background" They study how to be social, how to contact people, and how to understand human psychology. Seminaries also pay a great deal of attention to the methods of preaching the gospel, to sermons, and to managing the church. Even though the seminary students have the Bible in their hands, they may not understand the things in the Bible. They know what the Bible says concerning Abraham and Moses, but they do not fully believe or receive what is recorded in the Bible.These points show that Christianity is poor because it does not teach people to enter into the truth and revelation of the Bible.The marvelous thing is that although most of those who were greatly used by the Lord throughout the generations did not come out of seminaries. I love and even respect Thirumeni as a person, yet I do hate his nature of dissimilar yoking with the world. Because he is a bishop.
+3
thomas vemmelil (January 25, 2012)
Joy chembakasseril:-Truly, we should not judge others and we should leave the judgement part of it to God. I do agree with you at this point. But we should be able to discern people to know whether one is a believer or an unbeliever.The Lord wants us to become vessels unto honor. Although we should not argue with people about doctrines, we need to discern their nature. We should discern whether the nature of someone's work is wooden and earthen or if it is gold and silver. Is it a work of wood and earth or a work of gold and silver? Some people build with wood, grass, and stubble; others build with gold, silver, and precious stones (1 Cor. 3:12). We must discern the nature of the work. I don't believe even Pentecostals are building with gold, silver, and precious stones.They are building strong organizations with wood, grass, and stubble. "But the spiritual man discerns all things; but he himself is discerned by no man. (1Cor. 2:15) We can discern by all means the nature of anyone.
Joy chembakasseril:-Truly, we should not judge others and we should leave the judgement part of it to God. I do agree with you at this point. But we should be able to discern people to know whether one is a believer or an unbeliever.The Lord wants us to become vessels unto honor. Although we should not argue with people about doctrines, we need to discern their nature. We should discern whether the nature of someone's work is wooden and earthen or if it is gold and silver. Is it a work of wood and earth or a work of gold and silver? Some people build with wood, grass, and stubble; others build with gold, silver, and precious stones (1 Cor. 3:12). We must discern the nature of the work. I don't believe even Pentecostals are building with gold, silver, and precious stones.They are building strong organizations with wood, grass, and stubble. "But the spiritual man discerns all things; but he himself is discerned by no man. (1Cor. 2:15) We can discern by all means the nature of anyone.
+3
joy chembakasseril. (January 25, 2012)
to thomas vemmelil-- njaan twenty four hours phonenum cheviyil vacchu bada addikkunna party alla, athukondu ninghal enne aringhilla, eppol parayanddivannappool paranjhu ennu maatthram. chilarudheea jeevetham thanneea phoonum baadaayilum aannalloo, avarudheea aakappaadheea yulla kazhivum atthu thanneea! any way i am glad you came to know about me atleast now! you said you don't have anybody, but christ and you have nothing! my brother- vemmeli- i have everything,and everybody, because of my heavenly father!i have christ and i have friends too! i treasure my friends! "kaanappedunna sahoodharaneea snehikkan kazhiyaatthavann, kaanappedaattha yesuvineea enghaneea snehikkum"!you also said you are guilty for what you said- please please don't be guilty. when you say something stick by what you say. this is a civilized world that you see, you have a right of opinion, just like everybody else and i respect it in that sense, the only problem is that, i don't agree with what you said ! ningh
to thomas vemmelil-- njaan twenty four hours phonenum cheviyil vacchu bada addikkunna party alla, athukondu ninghal enne aringhilla, eppol parayanddivannappool paranjhu ennu maatthram. chilarudheea jeevetham thanneea phoonum baadaayilum aannalloo, avarudheea aakappaadheea yulla kazhivum atthu thanneea! any way i am glad you came to know about me atleast now! you said you don't have anybody, but christ and you have nothing! my brother- vemmeli- i have everything,and everybody, because of my heavenly father!i have christ and i have friends too! i treasure my friends! "kaanappedunna sahoodharaneea snehikkan kazhiyaatthavann, kaanappedaattha yesuvineea enghaneea snehikkum"!you also said you are guilty for what you said- please please don't be guilty. when you say something stick by what you say. this is a civilized world that you see, you have a right of opinion, just like everybody else and i respect it in that sense, the only problem is that, i don't agree with what you said ! ningh
+1
joy chembakasseril. (January 25, 2012)
to thomas vemmelil- ofcourse i was a politician once, and i have many friends in political circles and otherwise. i always treasure my friendship and i always make sure i make good friends. if i feel that somebody is not a good person to be a friend i always try to distance myself from that person, at the same time i make sure i don't develop a hatred towards that person. i may try to avoid that person, but deep in my heart i don't try to hate him and i may spare an occasional smile. i had visited not only anto antony (m p) at indira house, tvm, but also kerala house in new delhi and i had one on one conversation with mr a k antony, he was kpcc president at that time. i had one on one conversation mr k p unnikrishnan he was congress (s) mp at that time. i had been with present speaker of kerala assembly mr k karthekeyan, he was our ksu president at that time.i had been with mr muraleedharan, he was in our ksu unit at that time.i had been to- no 1 sufdarjung house, contd 1
to thomas vemmelil- ofcourse i was a politician once, and i have many friends in political circles and otherwise. i always treasure my friendship and i always make sure i make good friends. if i feel that somebody is not a good person to be a friend i always try to distance myself from that person, at the same time i make sure i don't develop a hatred towards that person. i may try to avoid that person, but deep in my heart i don't try to hate him and i may spare an occasional smile. i had visited not only anto antony (m p) at indira house, tvm, but also kerala house in new delhi and i had one on one conversation with mr a k antony, he was kpcc president at that time. i had one on one conversation mr k p unnikrishnan he was congress (s) mp at that time. i had been with present speaker of kerala assembly mr k karthekeyan, he was our ksu president at that time.i had been with mr muraleedharan, he was in our ksu unit at that time.i had been to- no 1 sufdarjung house, contd 1
+1
sam thomas (January 25, 2012)
2-3 wise men who are really ignorant of the Apostolic teaching on salvation, faith declaration, faith baptism, assembly of saints,separation etc; are talking something about everything . It will not tamper a true believer.They may be talking from their experience from those false Pentecostals and leaders they met in their life. They will not be taught the truth by any writing unless God gives them a revelation. If they really pray, God will give them too the revelation on His plan on salvation, the life and blessing.
2-3 wise men who are really ignorant of the Apostolic teaching on salvation, faith declaration, faith baptism, assembly of saints,separation etc; are talking something about everything . It will not tamper a true believer.They may be talking from their experience from those false Pentecostals and leaders they met in their life. They will not be taught the truth by any writing unless God gives them a revelation. If they really pray, God will give them too the revelation on His plan on salvation, the life and blessing.
-4
thepraize (January 25, 2012)
@jijo just for your information,all these thirumenis and achens have a well structered theolgical seminary background and are more wise biblically than perhaps the majority of the pastors from the pentecostal churches - where everybody is a pastor with no structured schooling whatsoever and i think that in itself is a major concern and leads to wrong teachings in the church. i have my doubts if you know kp well, i can challenge there is none like him in india presently reaching out to the poor and unreached.so please have your facts ready before you speak from an elevated pedestal of holiness of pentecostalism - perhaps a movement which is now just reduced to a controversial group involved in situations that even secular world deter.look into yourselves you are not even willing to accept a thirumeni,who is certainly more educated and accepted than you,what kind of god you follow? finally maadrigayum,jeevidha vishuddhi illathavarudey prasangam kettiittum veliya kaaryam illya.blessings.
@jijo just for your information,all these thirumenis and achens have a well structered theolgical seminary background and are more wise biblically than perhaps the majority of the pastors from the pentecostal churches - where everybody is a pastor with no structured schooling whatsoever and i think that in itself is a major concern and leads to wrong teachings in the church. i have my doubts if you know kp well, i can challenge there is none like him in india presently reaching out to the poor and unreached.so please have your facts ready before you speak from an elevated pedestal of holiness of pentecostalism - perhaps a movement which is now just reduced to a controversial group involved in situations that even secular world deter.look into yourselves you are not even willing to accept a thirumeni,who is certainly more educated and accepted than you,what kind of god you follow? finally maadrigayum,jeevidha vishuddhi illathavarudey prasangam kettiittum veliya kaaryam illya.blessings.
+5
thepraize (January 25, 2012)
@joy chembakasseril, usa,i read thru your comments on various subjects you cannnot be more precise,i have left my email id with asm and we are in touch,and i have also left my email on this web last week,waiting to hear from you.
@jijo bro please understand,faith is a conviction and to that extent i will not dare challenge the thirumeni - who has spend his entire life in the ministry,now whether his faith aligns with your faith is a subjective matter and i doubt if this would be a good place to discuss.To be more precise, i am not equipped to challenge ones' faith.Blessings
@joy chembakasseril, usa,i read thru your comments on various subjects you cannnot be more precise,i have left my email id with asm and we are in touch,and i have also left my email on this web last week,waiting to hear from you.
@jijo bro please understand,faith is a conviction and to that extent i will not dare challenge the thirumeni - who has spend his entire life in the ministry,now whether his faith aligns with your faith is a subjective matter and i doubt if this would be a good place to discuss.To be more precise, i am not equipped to challenge ones' faith.Blessings
+5
joy chembakasseril (January 25, 2012)
defintion of a beleiver( vishvaasi)- anyone who repents on his sins and transgressions and accepts and proclaims that jesus is his savior and maintians a spiritual relationship with god according to the true spirit and laws of the bible is a believer(vishvaasi) ! swargarajyam penthacostthu kaarkku maattramullathu ennu enngum paranjhittillaa ! mattillavareea kuttom viddhikkaanum oru visvaasikku avakaasmilla ! neethmanaay yahovayaanu kanakkidunnathu ! k p yohananum, mar cristostam thirumeniyum epprakaaram paapanghal eettuuparanjeeu, karttavineea rakshitthaavaayi sweekaricchavaraaneghil- visvaasi yaakunnun swarrgharaajyam avarrkkum koodi ollathallo. the only condition is that they have to maintain a spiritual life according to the standards set in the bible.
defintion of a beleiver( vishvaasi)- anyone who repents on his sins and transgressions and accepts and proclaims that jesus is his savior and maintians a spiritual relationship with god according to the true spirit and laws of the bible is a believer(vishvaasi) ! swargarajyam penthacostthu kaarkku maattramullathu ennu enngum paranjhittillaa ! mattillavareea kuttom viddhikkaanum oru visvaasikku avakaasmilla ! neethmanaay yahovayaanu kanakkidunnathu ! k p yohananum, mar cristostam thirumeniyum epprakaaram paapanghal eettuuparanjeeu, karttavineea rakshitthaavaayi sweekaricchavaraaneghil- visvaasi yaakunnun swarrgharaajyam avarrkkum koodi ollathallo. the only condition is that they have to maintain a spiritual life according to the standards set in the bible.
+1
jijo (January 25, 2012)
a little bit abut my background: njan 2003-il Orthodox sabhayil ninnum rakshikkapettu vanna oru vishawasi anu.. kure kalam oru independent sabhyilum, eppol stalam mariyathu moolam oru AG sabhayil aradhichu varunnu..i wuld hav been very, very happy if thirumeni was sitting with the audience to listen to the Word of God..thirumeni on the stage set a different standard, indeed. it was as if proclaiming ipc and marthoma all are one.. he he he..
a little bit abut my background: njan 2003-il Orthodox sabhayil ninnum rakshikkapettu vanna oru vishawasi anu.. kure kalam oru independent sabhyilum, eppol stalam mariyathu moolam oru AG sabhayil aradhichu varunnu..i wuld hav been very, very happy if thirumeni was sitting with the audience to listen to the Word of God..thirumeni on the stage set a different standard, indeed. it was as if proclaiming ipc and marthoma all are one.. he he he..
-4
jijo (January 25, 2012)
sorry i checked the comments little later.
this is my reply: avishwasikaolodu suvishesham parayunnathum avishwasiye stagil kayattunnathum randum randu karyam anu. adyathathu cheyykayum randamethethu cheyyathirikkukayum venam.
in simple words, thirumeniyodu suvishesham parayan njan thayar, but i will not expect him to host a pentecostal prayer meeting. i feel like laughing.
one brother asked how we can tell thirumeni is avishwasi. in my words, thirumeni (with all due respect to him), and the likes of kp yohannan are aviswasikal as they don't live according to biblical standards.
sorry i checked the comments little later.
this is my reply: avishwasikaolodu suvishesham parayunnathum avishwasiye stagil kayattunnathum randum randu karyam anu. adyathathu cheyykayum randamethethu cheyyathirikkukayum venam.
in simple words, thirumeniyodu suvishesham parayan njan thayar, but i will not expect him to host a pentecostal prayer meeting. i feel like laughing.
one brother asked how we can tell thirumeni is avishwasi. in my words, thirumeni (with all due respect to him), and the likes of kp yohannan are aviswasikal as they don't live according to biblical standards.
-3
joy chembakasseril. (January 25, 2012)
to sam - contd-1 the almighty god has instilled in you a spirit of wisdom in your creation itself, am i right or wrong ? if your answer is wrong, then there is no difference between you and an animal. you know 'mule' is an animal, 'donkey' is an animal too!
the almighty expects you to use your god ordained wisdom, in your all ways of life and so is bible reading too!
several narrations in the bible are vague, may be because of the incompetent interpretations and some interpretations are not precise either ! the reason why i am saying is this because, many questions has propped up from bible-students and there is no clear-cut answers given by the bible tutor !so read wisely and don't make a mule out of yourselves reading and interpreting the bible ! god bless you !!!
to sam - contd-1 the almighty god has instilled in you a spirit of wisdom in your creation itself, am i right or wrong ? if your answer is wrong, then there is no difference between you and an animal. you know 'mule' is an animal, 'donkey' is an animal too!
the almighty expects you to use your god ordained wisdom, in your all ways of life and so is bible reading too!
several narrations in the bible are vague, may be because of the incompetent interpretations and some interpretations are not precise either ! the reason why i am saying is this because, many questions has propped up from bible-students and there is no clear-cut answers given by the bible tutor !so read wisely and don't make a mule out of yourselves reading and interpreting the bible ! god bless you !!!
+5
joy chembakasseril. (January 25, 2012)
to sam - i just mentioned, the versus in the bible should be read and understood in reference to the relative context and not strictly by the word meaning,because the word terminology has limitations in its expressions!
let me analyze what you just said-- "jesus told to accept word of god as a child"- does the bible, express how old the child is ? no. so i can take any child[age don't matter] as a reference! say for example can a five year old read and understand, and accept the bible, like an elderly or make it six or seven ? no. right now i just proved to you don't go by the word meaning! so what that means according to the bible is that- accept bible like an innocent child- here the word 'child' stands for "innocence" and nothing else!but the almighty has instilled in you a spirit of wisdom too, right or wrong! contd-1
to sam - i just mentioned, the versus in the bible should be read and understood in reference to the relative context and not strictly by the word meaning,because the word terminology has limitations in its expressions!
let me analyze what you just said-- "jesus told to accept word of god as a child"- does the bible, express how old the child is ? no. so i can take any child[age don't matter] as a reference! say for example can a five year old read and understand, and accept the bible, like an elderly or make it six or seven ? no. right now i just proved to you don't go by the word meaning! so what that means according to the bible is that- accept bible like an innocent child- here the word 'child' stands for "innocence" and nothing else!but the almighty has instilled in you a spirit of wisdom too, right or wrong! contd-1
+5
sam thomas (January 24, 2012)
@ Joy chembajasseril. Jesus told to accept word of God as a child not as a wise, through the eyes of the situations, culture etc..Sathya vedha pusthakam, NKJV, and even POC Malayalam full bible is clear (if apocrypha - warned in the preface of POC Bible is exempted.).
@ Joy chembajasseril. Jesus told to accept word of God as a child not as a wise, through the eyes of the situations, culture etc..Sathya vedha pusthakam, NKJV, and even POC Malayalam full bible is clear (if apocrypha - warned in the preface of POC Bible is exempted.).
-6
joy chembakasseril (January 24, 2012)
several verses in the bible should be read and understood in reference to the relative context and not strictly by the word-meaning of it, because the word terminology has limitations pertaining to the exact meaning of it in each senario! several narations in the bible are vague and some interpretations are precise either!the almighty god granted us wisdom to read with wisdom and not make out a mule reading and it! reading, understanding and the application all these three factors are equally important in our lives! sometimes the majority could be wrong and i have experienced it several times! my co-workers, people in the management make a mule out of themselves sometimes applying the application of certain rules, they are not really looking into the fact that is it really required at this time in this particular senario! what happens, the employees becomes a de-moralized force. a normal worker spent one-third of our life-time in work places, so we should make it a better place!
several verses in the bible should be read and understood in reference to the relative context and not strictly by the word-meaning of it, because the word terminology has limitations pertaining to the exact meaning of it in each senario! several narations in the bible are vague and some interpretations are precise either!the almighty god granted us wisdom to read with wisdom and not make out a mule reading and it! reading, understanding and the application all these three factors are equally important in our lives! sometimes the majority could be wrong and i have experienced it several times! my co-workers, people in the management make a mule out of themselves sometimes applying the application of certain rules, they are not really looking into the fact that is it really required at this time in this particular senario! what happens, the employees becomes a de-moralized force. a normal worker spent one-third of our life-time in work places, so we should make it a better place!
+5
joy chembakasseril (January 23, 2012)
to a s mathew& thepraize-- this appachen's eyes balls began to roll, for a minute i thought he was somebody else! "eddaa enntthaa mooneea neee paranjheea, nee parisshuddhaathmaavinoodaa kalikkunneea, ennum mattum"! i told him, appaccha-- "ethu parsshuddhathmaavum,pinnakkum, onnum alla, apacchanntteea thoonnallaa", but i made sure nobody hears this conversation! i also observed him bringing that drum to every meeting he was in! when i got more information about this priest,i came to a conclusion,that this priest cannot function in a meeting without a drum,to him he thinks,'anugraham comes form and through the noise of a drum',nobody can change him on that,till date."drum to this priest is like a walking-stick to a limping person",maybe he is limping spiritually! some believers who thinks similarly too,nobody can change them and those who wants a change,won't dare to go to the priest to advise him, because,they think if they do so some holy-wrath will be on them! i got more--
to a s mathew& thepraize-- this appachen's eyes balls began to roll, for a minute i thought he was somebody else! "eddaa enntthaa mooneea neee paranjheea, nee parisshuddhaathmaavinoodaa kalikkunneea, ennum mattum"! i told him, appaccha-- "ethu parsshuddhathmaavum,pinnakkum, onnum alla, apacchanntteea thoonnallaa", but i made sure nobody hears this conversation! i also observed him bringing that drum to every meeting he was in! when i got more information about this priest,i came to a conclusion,that this priest cannot function in a meeting without a drum,to him he thinks,'anugraham comes form and through the noise of a drum',nobody can change him on that,till date."drum to this priest is like a walking-stick to a limping person",maybe he is limping spiritually! some believers who thinks similarly too,nobody can change them and those who wants a change,won't dare to go to the priest to advise him, because,they think if they do so some holy-wrath will be on them! i got more--
+3
joy chembakasseril (January 23, 2012)
to a s mathew& thepraize-- contd_1 the priest who conducts the meeting walks in with a drum! i was watching this,but didn't say anything at that time,because i thought my response should be based on an observation and not based on any prejudice and also i do not want to be "categorized as an anti-drum-boy,by the older generation! remember,this priest is from a village side in kerala. the meeting started,and the songs also started by the saints of god and i am sitting beside the drummer,the not only the singing was too loud for the neighborhood, the drumming was even louder.i was struggling sitting there the whole time,even though i tried to distance myself from the drummer! when the meeting was over i went to the priest and pulled him by my side for privacy and asked him, "appachha etthrra bahalatthinntteea aavashyam oondoo"!and i asked him very politely-- this priest who had a smile on his face initially,suddenly the seven colors began to appear on his face,contd_2
to a s mathew& thepraize-- contd_1 the priest who conducts the meeting walks in with a drum! i was watching this,but didn't say anything at that time,because i thought my response should be based on an observation and not based on any prejudice and also i do not want to be "categorized as an anti-drum-boy,by the older generation! remember,this priest is from a village side in kerala. the meeting started,and the songs also started by the saints of god and i am sitting beside the drummer,the not only the singing was too loud for the neighborhood, the drumming was even louder.i was struggling sitting there the whole time,even though i tried to distance myself from the drummer! when the meeting was over i went to the priest and pulled him by my side for privacy and asked him, "appachha etthrra bahalatthinntteea aavashyam oondoo"!and i asked him very politely-- this priest who had a smile on his face initially,suddenly the seven colors began to appear on his face,contd_2
+2
thomas vemmelil (January 23, 2012)
joy chembakasseril :- sorry brother, i never knew you too were a politician once, and also you have had visited " indira bhavan" several times. i am a person who does not have anything in life to claim as such. all what i have is only christ and christ alone. he is the only pleasure and treasure in my earthen vessel. christ is my all and in all. you are indeed a great man of stature having high contacts with politicians and religious leaders. i truly feel guilty and even ashamed having an encounter with you. i only quoted a verse from 2 cor. 6: 14-15 for which i am guilty as charged. these verses are truly contextual and perfectly relevant to the subject in question. " what agreement has the temple of god with idols??for you are the temple of the living god". thirumeni is not only famous in " christian circles" but also now in hindu temples. what agreement has a bishop of god with idols? tell me, is this verse not contextual? i don't intend to poke your flesh again, forgive me.
joy chembakasseril :- sorry brother, i never knew you too were a politician once, and also you have had visited " indira bhavan" several times. i am a person who does not have anything in life to claim as such. all what i have is only christ and christ alone. he is the only pleasure and treasure in my earthen vessel. christ is my all and in all. you are indeed a great man of stature having high contacts with politicians and religious leaders. i truly feel guilty and even ashamed having an encounter with you. i only quoted a verse from 2 cor. 6: 14-15 for which i am guilty as charged. these verses are truly contextual and perfectly relevant to the subject in question. " what agreement has the temple of god with idols??for you are the temple of the living god". thirumeni is not only famous in " christian circles" but also now in hindu temples. what agreement has a bishop of god with idols? tell me, is this verse not contextual? i don't intend to poke your flesh again, forgive me.
+10
joy chembakasseril (January 23, 2012)
to a s mathew& thepraize--- a good number of them follow a kind of
cyclo-style- holiness! this cyclo-style holiness is instilled in their minds by a certain category of church preachers[not everyone, the once in the initial years of transformation,who didn't had no formal bible college training] and passed on for generations! this cyclo-style holiness is in their blood not just the soul! they become so obsessed with that and a certain level of craze also develops in what "they" think is right! now they lose their sense of reasoning and wisdom too to a certain level!this is a gradual transformation!
the eyes turn yellow too, now everything is yellow! this is wrong -that is wrong-that is wrong-this is wrong, wrong- wrong-wrong--- there is nothing in front of them that is "right" now, except them!
an example- prayer meeting in a house, several years ago, the priest who conducts the meeting walks in with a drum! i was watching this and i kept quiet, because i do not wan
to a s mathew& thepraize--- a good number of them follow a kind of
cyclo-style- holiness! this cyclo-style holiness is instilled in their minds by a certain category of church preachers[not everyone, the once in the initial years of transformation,who didn't had no formal bible college training] and passed on for generations! this cyclo-style holiness is in their blood not just the soul! they become so obsessed with that and a certain level of craze also develops in what "they" think is right! now they lose their sense of reasoning and wisdom too to a certain level!this is a gradual transformation!
the eyes turn yellow too, now everything is yellow! this is wrong -that is wrong-that is wrong-this is wrong, wrong- wrong-wrong--- there is nothing in front of them that is "right" now, except them!
an example- prayer meeting in a house, several years ago, the priest who conducts the meeting walks in with a drum! i was watching this and i kept quiet, because i do not wan
+5
a. s. mathew (January 23, 2012)
brother thepraize: the terminology called "holiness" is totally misinterpreted. " woe to you, scribes and pharissees, hypocrites!
for you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected
the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. these you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. " blind
guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! "woe unto you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites! for you clean the outside of the
cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence". mathew 23:23-25. some holiness
personalities have emerged recently and the followers are blindly
following them as classical and typical models of holiness. my friend called me from kerala that one of the holiness specialist you
mentioned, scared a very close friend of my friend, because
he had to cancel a programme. the holiness saint warned him about
liability case. how many courts are in h
brother thepraize: the terminology called "holiness" is totally misinterpreted. " woe to you, scribes and pharissees, hypocrites!
for you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected
the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. these you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. " blind
guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! "woe unto you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites! for you clean the outside of the
cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence". mathew 23:23-25. some holiness
personalities have emerged recently and the followers are blindly
following them as classical and typical models of holiness. my friend called me from kerala that one of the holiness specialist you
mentioned, scared a very close friend of my friend, because
he had to cancel a programme. the holiness saint warned him about
liability case. how many courts are in h
+6
a. s. mathew (January 23, 2012)
brother james: i do accept your apology. even if you didn't initate the apology, i have fully forgiven and did forget about that. when we keep bitterness and grudge, we will be hurting. that chapter is over with. we are living in the grace age freely delivered at calvary for the whole humanity, but some believers are so frequently capitalized and walking backward to the "law age" of the old testament time. some of the old time religious leaders, taught constantly from the old testament and now some of their true disciples are trying to pull the followers back to the old age-old testament theology. there are a lot of great wisdom and spiritual lessons to be learnt from the old testament, but the laws touching food-clothings and many other topics are not applicable at the grace period. as the lord gives me grace and strength, i would like to write it very openly; and i do expect hugs and slapping from the readers.
brother james: i do accept your apology. even if you didn't initate the apology, i have fully forgiven and did forget about that. when we keep bitterness and grudge, we will be hurting. that chapter is over with. we are living in the grace age freely delivered at calvary for the whole humanity, but some believers are so frequently capitalized and walking backward to the "law age" of the old testament time. some of the old time religious leaders, taught constantly from the old testament and now some of their true disciples are trying to pull the followers back to the old age-old testament theology. there are a lot of great wisdom and spiritual lessons to be learnt from the old testament, but the laws touching food-clothings and many other topics are not applicable at the grace period. as the lord gives me grace and strength, i would like to write it very openly; and i do expect hugs and slapping from the readers.
+6
a. s. mathew (January 23, 2012)
Cond:- Now, new spiritual diseases are invented by some off brand prosperity preachers. Dr. Billy Graham wrote " all prayers are answered, some immediately-some no-and some wait". According to the new spirituality doctors " some immediate answers, some wait and the rest "Generational curse or black magic". If we read their high priced books and donate huge amount, they have some special therapy to heal us from the Generational curse and black magic.
Cond:- Now, new spiritual diseases are invented by some off brand prosperity preachers. Dr. Billy Graham wrote " all prayers are answered, some immediately-some no-and some wait". According to the new spirituality doctors " some immediate answers, some wait and the rest "Generational curse or black magic". If we read their high priced books and donate huge amount, they have some special therapy to heal us from the Generational curse and black magic.
+5
a. s. mathew (January 23, 2012)
brother joy chembakasseril: your elaborate eplanation about holy kiss
and hug could open some new lessons in life, which is greatly
appreciated. the overbearing influence of "holiness" will
dissuade many people not even to shake hands with other people.
in february 2006, i could attend a slum church in delhi, and i have
never felt such a spiritual joy and uplift in life for a very long
time. we had one person who was laying hands on people and they were
falling down. i don't have that gift. god put in my heart to
hug them: was it a test from god? when i tried to hug them, they
were nervous because even many visitors won't shake hands with them.
i felt very happy after hugging a few of them. one in our group
warned me, not to hug anybody you meet as believers, some of them have
demonic spirit in them, and it can wrap you around because of the
great demonic power among the slum dwellers. contd:
brother joy chembakasseril: your elaborate eplanation about holy kiss
and hug could open some new lessons in life, which is greatly
appreciated. the overbearing influence of "holiness" will
dissuade many people not even to shake hands with other people.
in february 2006, i could attend a slum church in delhi, and i have
never felt such a spiritual joy and uplift in life for a very long
time. we had one person who was laying hands on people and they were
falling down. i don't have that gift. god put in my heart to
hug them: was it a test from god? when i tried to hug them, they
were nervous because even many visitors won't shake hands with them.
i felt very happy after hugging a few of them. one in our group
warned me, not to hug anybody you meet as believers, some of them have
demonic spirit in them, and it can wrap you around because of the
great demonic power among the slum dwellers. contd:
+5
thepraize (January 23, 2012)
@joy chembakasseril, usa i think we both fail to comprehend concept of the separation and holiness expounded by some most holy contributers in this forum. i think true holiness according to them is the one manifested by holy reverends like rev m kunjappy,k a abraham,suresh babu and the likes, and find thirumeni - somebody who is widely respected across cross section of the society globally, as avishwaasi and not holy,i acccept i am not holy and separated. i have closely observed the spirit in which few contributers convey this concept and i must admit i do not want to follow those foot steps. sorry for quoting names
@joy chembakasseril, usa i think we both fail to comprehend concept of the separation and holiness expounded by some most holy contributers in this forum. i think true holiness according to them is the one manifested by holy reverends like rev m kunjappy,k a abraham,suresh babu and the likes, and find thirumeni - somebody who is widely respected across cross section of the society globally, as avishwaasi and not holy,i acccept i am not holy and separated. i have closely observed the spirit in which few contributers convey this concept and i must admit i do not want to follow those foot steps. sorry for quoting names
+9
cherian samuel (January 23, 2012)
@ p m thomas,"thirumeni" went there to share gospel.May be preaching Acts 17:22 onwards.!!!!! on treturn he got an anjäathadevan as a gift.!!!
@ p m thomas,"thirumeni" went there to share gospel.May be preaching Acts 17:22 onwards.!!!!! on treturn he got an anjäathadevan as a gift.!!!
0
joy chembakasseril (January 23, 2012)
@ thomas vemmelil- "ninghal buddhiyulla aaraadhanayaayirippeen" ennaanu njaan biblelileea prathibhaadanaghalill ninnu manassilakkeettullathuee,aallaatheea 'manddan kooman' vakkeelineea poole ninnu vaaddhikkaanallaa!Bibilileea 66 pusstthakatthill avidhunnum evidunnum vaakkyanghall out of context aayi quote ccheyyithu vaadhikkunnathill aarrtthamilla.You are wasting your columns too! Bro vemmelil you are reffering about the convention, were thirumeni mar cristostom and the politician anto antony[m p] took part,I understand that!I know these people,I used to be a politician too,before.Mar Christostom Thirumeni is a well respected priest among christian circles.I have meet anto antony many times at Indira Bhavan ,Tvm,he is from a christian background with some real spiritual values. Your reference from the Bible based on that is "out of context"!Nobody compromised their spiritual values here based on that,by taking part in the convention.That was a convention and not a church worship!
@ thomas vemmelil- "ninghal buddhiyulla aaraadhanayaayirippeen" ennaanu njaan biblelileea prathibhaadanaghalill ninnu manassilakkeettullathuee,aallaatheea 'manddan kooman' vakkeelineea poole ninnu vaaddhikkaanallaa!Bibilileea 66 pusstthakatthill avidhunnum evidunnum vaakkyanghall out of context aayi quote ccheyyithu vaadhikkunnathill aarrtthamilla.You are wasting your columns too! Bro vemmelil you are reffering about the convention, were thirumeni mar cristostom and the politician anto antony[m p] took part,I understand that!I know these people,I used to be a politician too,before.Mar Christostom Thirumeni is a well respected priest among christian circles.I have meet anto antony many times at Indira Bhavan ,Tvm,he is from a christian background with some real spiritual values. Your reference from the Bible based on that is "out of context"!Nobody compromised their spiritual values here based on that,by taking part in the convention.That was a convention and not a church worship!
+4
joy chembakasseril, usa. (January 23, 2012)
@ sam thomas---- thank you for your flattering! but I hope you grabbed what I meant!
@ sam thomas---- thank you for your flattering! but I hope you grabbed what I meant!
+6
james (January 23, 2012)
@abraham
Ente avaracho…... Igerkippo orapakadam patti immini chora venam ennu karuthuka. Dakkittarmaru Vishvasi aano ennu test cheithechano ingerku veroruthante blood tharunnathu…? Ingerku bhowthika deham undenkile athil athmeyavum ullo….... hethu........? ee paranjathilum oru inayillapina ille.......?
Huntrappi-busuto... manasilayo…?
@abraham
Ente avaracho…... Igerkippo orapakadam patti immini chora venam ennu karuthuka. Dakkittarmaru Vishvasi aano ennu test cheithechano ingerku veroruthante blood tharunnathu…? Ingerku bhowthika deham undenkile athil athmeyavum ullo….... hethu........? ee paranjathilum oru inayillapina ille.......?
Huntrappi-busuto... manasilayo…?
+3
james (January 22, 2012)
@a.s mathew very sorry sir, it’s a typing & copy paste mistake. i had written as among these comments, i feel only your comments are sensible . the word among missed in copy paste
@a.s mathew very sorry sir, it’s a typing & copy paste mistake. i had written as among these comments, i feel only your comments are sensible . the word among missed in copy paste
+3
sam thomas (January 22, 2012)
@Joy Chembakasseril. Thankalude bhudhiyudeyum parinjanathindeyum munpil Parisudhathmaavinu polum pidichunilkkuvaan kazhiyukayilla. pinneyalle mattullavarude karyam. Abhinandanagal!
@Joy Chembakasseril. Thankalude bhudhiyudeyum parinjanathindeyum munpil Parisudhathmaavinu polum pidichunilkkuvaan kazhiyukayilla. pinneyalle mattullavarude karyam. Abhinandanagal!
-2
p m thomas (January 22, 2012)
Hey, our "thirumeni" received Ganesha award!! (defender news) All true Pentecostala, let us congratulate him! Although his true Reward in heaven is at stake.
Hey, our "thirumeni" received Ganesha award!! (defender news) All true Pentecostala, let us congratulate him! Although his true Reward in heaven is at stake.
0
thomas vemmelil (January 22, 2012)
Joy Chembakasseril:- Your illustration about watching cricket truly reminds me of the metaphor used in Jude 13 & 14 for the apostates as the "wandering stars". The metaphor of wandering stars indicates that the erratic teachers, the apostates, are not solidly fixed in the unchanging truths of the heavenly revelation, but are wandering about among God’s star-like people (Dan. 12:3; Phil. 2:15). Their destiny will be the gloom of darkness, which has been kept for them for eternity. What do you mean by the word separation? Separation is holiness unto God from all things other than Him. You give me an answer for the verses in 2 Corinthians 6:14-16 instead of being drifted away from the centrality of the subject. Is he not talking about separation in these verses? Don' t be a wandering star or a waterless cloud in your arguments. You wasted two of your columns just for the cricket game for nothing!!!
Joy Chembakasseril:- Your illustration about watching cricket truly reminds me of the metaphor used in Jude 13 & 14 for the apostates as the "wandering stars". The metaphor of wandering stars indicates that the erratic teachers, the apostates, are not solidly fixed in the unchanging truths of the heavenly revelation, but are wandering about among God’s star-like people (Dan. 12:3; Phil. 2:15). Their destiny will be the gloom of darkness, which has been kept for them for eternity. What do you mean by the word separation? Separation is holiness unto God from all things other than Him. You give me an answer for the verses in 2 Corinthians 6:14-16 instead of being drifted away from the centrality of the subject. Is he not talking about separation in these verses? Don' t be a wandering star or a waterless cloud in your arguments. You wasted two of your columns just for the cricket game for nothing!!!
+1
joy chembakasseril, usa. (January 22, 2012)
@ abraham-- "viswaasi aviswaasiyumaayi enayillaa pinaa kooteruthennu vaayicchittundeeu"! Pakssheea eazhutthhaa puram vaayikkaarilla!
oru puroohithhannum, raashttreeyakkaaranum conventionill adutthu vanniirunnthinu etthhraa "pukkaarrr oonnddaakkanoo" ???
anghaneyeangghil ninghall aapeessill pooyi mattullavarudheea adutthuu pooyirunnu jhoolie cheyyunnaathoo-- ennayillaa pina yaanooo???
@ abraham-- "viswaasi aviswaasiyumaayi enayillaa pinaa kooteruthennu vaayicchittundeeu"! Pakssheea eazhutthhaa puram vaayikkaarilla!
oru puroohithhannum, raashttreeyakkaaranum conventionill adutthu vanniirunnthinu etthhraa "pukkaarrr oonnddaakkanoo" ???
anghaneyeangghil ninghall aapeessill pooyi mattullavarudheea adutthuu pooyirunnu jhoolie cheyyunnaathoo-- ennayillaa pina yaanooo???
+5
thepraize (January 22, 2012)
@james just wondering, if you cannot express yourself respectfully,towards people of good social standing,what good is your faith and thought process - chinthdhara,that you follow. Somebody born of the spirit will reflect christ like behavior in all walks of life and most important BALAPAADAM is respect people,and its a shame you cannot put across disagreements in a civilised language.
@ joy chembakasseril thanks for reflections on the thirumeni and politicion situation, i feel lately we are breeding a socially intolerant society under the cover of separation and holiness and this fundamentalism is truly a matter of concern specially in India. @asm- i would not be truly concerned about criticisms from people like james and would encourge you to march forward with the great commission,remember the one who is in you is greater than anybody, and as His ambassador you need to fullfill the purpose of His call.
Blessings
@james just wondering, if you cannot express yourself respectfully,towards people of good social standing,what good is your faith and thought process - chinthdhara,that you follow. Somebody born of the spirit will reflect christ like behavior in all walks of life and most important BALAPAADAM is respect people,and its a shame you cannot put across disagreements in a civilised language.
@ joy chembakasseril thanks for reflections on the thirumeni and politicion situation, i feel lately we are breeding a socially intolerant society under the cover of separation and holiness and this fundamentalism is truly a matter of concern specially in India. @asm- i would not be truly concerned about criticisms from people like james and would encourge you to march forward with the great commission,remember the one who is in you is greater than anybody, and as His ambassador you need to fullfill the purpose of His call.
Blessings
+6
kunjachan (January 22, 2012)
Urangunnavane vilichu unarthaam. njaan unarukayillennu vaasi pidichu kidakkunnavane unarthuvaan oru marghavumilla. I am concluding in this topic.
Urangunnavane vilichu unarthaam. njaan unarukayillennu vaasi pidichu kidakkunnavane unarthuvaan oru marghavumilla. I am concluding in this topic.
-7
abraham (January 22, 2012)
@joy chembakasseril
vishvasikku avishvasiyumayi inayillapina kooderuthu ennu bibileil vayichittilla alliyo?
@joy chembakasseril
vishvasikku avishvasiyumayi inayillapina kooderuthu ennu bibileil vayichittilla alliyo?
-7
joy chembakasseril (January 21, 2012)
contd 1- i get this same illusion, when some of us speak about seperation and faith ! i don't really understand what they mean ! the thirumeni and the politician was on the stage in a conventionand not in a church-worship. they were there because they were invited. as a mark of respect,they were given, a center place in the stage and not a corner. the thirumeni and the politician got up to say a word of greeting to the crowd, for if they don't say anything,it would be rude on their part. nobody made any compromise about their religious beliefs here. some of us got so obsessed with our religious beliefs that we see everything wrong in others! the bible points out about the importance of showing more eagerness being a listener than being a speaker, which means only if you be a good listener, others will listen to you. all i am saying is that, only if we have a christ-like behavior, we can attract attention of others for our preaching ! otherwise what good is your seperation ?
contd 1- i get this same illusion, when some of us speak about seperation and faith ! i don't really understand what they mean ! the thirumeni and the politician was on the stage in a conventionand not in a church-worship. they were there because they were invited. as a mark of respect,they were given, a center place in the stage and not a corner. the thirumeni and the politician got up to say a word of greeting to the crowd, for if they don't say anything,it would be rude on their part. nobody made any compromise about their religious beliefs here. some of us got so obsessed with our religious beliefs that we see everything wrong in others! the bible points out about the importance of showing more eagerness being a listener than being a speaker, which means only if you be a good listener, others will listen to you. all i am saying is that, only if we have a christ-like behavior, we can attract attention of others for our preaching ! otherwise what good is your seperation ?
+2
joy chembakasseril (January 21, 2012)
i watch the game of cricket ! several years ago, when i was new to the game, i used to wonder why are these players are shouting, every now and then and they would be looking in one direction to one person, the umpire ! first, i didn't even understand the word or the sound they were expressing or shouting,then little later i came to know that they were all calling the umpire and his name is ouseph, - joseph. but then again it appeared strange to me,why game after game and in every game,they call the umpire by the same name- ouseph. i was only six or seven years old at that time. i used to reason myself,why in the world all these umpires have the same name,i used to think may be its a co-incedence and let me watch some more games,it might be different in the next matches, but the name to me remained the same. then again i thought, how can both the umpires get the same name. my reasoning to find out the reality of it went on and on, until finally i came across what they meant ! contd 1
i watch the game of cricket ! several years ago, when i was new to the game, i used to wonder why are these players are shouting, every now and then and they would be looking in one direction to one person, the umpire ! first, i didn't even understand the word or the sound they were expressing or shouting,then little later i came to know that they were all calling the umpire and his name is ouseph, - joseph. but then again it appeared strange to me,why game after game and in every game,they call the umpire by the same name- ouseph. i was only six or seven years old at that time. i used to reason myself,why in the world all these umpires have the same name,i used to think may be its a co-incedence and let me watch some more games,it might be different in the next matches, but the name to me remained the same. then again i thought, how can both the umpires get the same name. my reasoning to find out the reality of it went on and on, until finally i came across what they meant ! contd 1
+3
a. s. mathew (January 21, 2012)
brother james: thank you for your kind comment. please check with the editors of daijiworld-mangaloretoday-mangalorean-the economic times of india-southasian connection-mangalam-gulf news-times of india-atlanta journal constitution- and many other publications. they publish all of my comments. if my comments were not sensible, they will not edit them. i don't know how you felt that some of my comments are not sensible? for your highly conservative theological mindset and scholarship, it may not be sensible. many people may not agree with my broad-minded theological view point, but telling that some of my comments are not sensible means, that i am not sensible person, which was highly offending. as brother kunjachan and thomas vemmeli fairly and squarely opposing my view, you have the right, but using that particular word was very sub-standard.
brother james: thank you for your kind comment. please check with the editors of daijiworld-mangaloretoday-mangalorean-the economic times of india-southasian connection-mangalam-gulf news-times of india-atlanta journal constitution- and many other publications. they publish all of my comments. if my comments were not sensible, they will not edit them. i don't know how you felt that some of my comments are not sensible? for your highly conservative theological mindset and scholarship, it may not be sensible. many people may not agree with my broad-minded theological view point, but telling that some of my comments are not sensible means, that i am not sensible person, which was highly offending. as brother kunjachan and thomas vemmeli fairly and squarely opposing my view, you have the right, but using that particular word was very sub-standard.
+2
james (January 21, 2012)
@a.s mathew
only some of your comments in these posts are sensible.
@a.s mathew
only some of your comments in these posts are sensible.
-2
joy chembakasseril, usa. (January 21, 2012)
to thepraize- i do share your observation . "one should set a living example for others to know-christ,rather than blowing the trumpet as a christian ! others should witness christ-like behavior in us, for them to be drawn to christ or salvation". oruvan looha ettennoo, thoppi vecchenno pranjhue avanneea kuttom paranjhu maatti nirutthaatheea, avanneea koodi ullpedutthi, avanilulla thettaaya vashanghaleea sriyaakki edukkanulla atthmaavaneea nammakku veendhatheea. that is called christ like behavior. kuuttom cheyytha durrmaarghiyaaya streeyeea nookki daivom paranjhathueea, ninghalil paapom millaatthavan kalleriyatteea ennaanue. ennu vacchaal, aa stthreeyudheea , theatteu allaa daivom chintthicchathu, aval athileeku, vannu veena saahachariyam aanu daivom kanakkittathu. apariyaaptthanaaya manusyan kanakkidunna poolea alla daivom kanakkidunnatheu. kuttom parayaan eethu polisukaaranum saadhikkum, matha amruthaanandhamayiyeea kuttom parayanulla yoogyatha poolum enikkilla. stthoothram.
to thepraize- i do share your observation . "one should set a living example for others to know-christ,rather than blowing the trumpet as a christian ! others should witness christ-like behavior in us, for them to be drawn to christ or salvation". oruvan looha ettennoo, thoppi vecchenno pranjhue avanneea kuttom paranjhu maatti nirutthaatheea, avanneea koodi ullpedutthi, avanilulla thettaaya vashanghaleea sriyaakki edukkanulla atthmaavaneea nammakku veendhatheea. that is called christ like behavior. kuuttom cheyytha durrmaarghiyaaya streeyeea nookki daivom paranjhathueea, ninghalil paapom millaatthavan kalleriyatteea ennaanue. ennu vacchaal, aa stthreeyudheea , theatteu allaa daivom chintthicchathu, aval athileeku, vannu veena saahachariyam aanu daivom kanakkittathu. apariyaaptthanaaya manusyan kanakkidunna poolea alla daivom kanakkidunnatheu. kuttom parayaan eethu polisukaaranum saadhikkum, matha amruthaanandhamayiyeea kuttom parayanulla yoogyatha poolum enikkilla. stthoothram.
+3
sam mathew (January 20, 2012)
Seperation ennal viswasichu rakshikkapettu snaanappettittu(viswaasi)llavarallathavarodu,mindikkooda,thottukooda ennatharathilulla asahishnuthayude anubhavamalla,naam sweekaricha viswasathe mattu dheiva viswaasangalumaayi compromise cheyyatha verpaadu ennanartham.Avarum dheivatheyaanallo vilikkunnathu,avideyum athbhuthangalokke nadakkunnundallo,ellaam onnuthannennu chinthichu mindathirikkunna sahakaranam undaakaruthu ennathaanu separation ennathinte pradhaana artham.naam sweekaricha viswaasathekurichu vyakthamaaya oru dhaaranayundenkil maathrame bible anusaasikkunna verpadu enthennu manassilaakukayullu.sathyaviswaasathinte aadhikaarikatha sakalareyum bhodhyappeduthendathu oru viswaasiyude kadamayaanu.ennaal oru bishop/politician stajil kayarunnathu suviseshom kelkkanalla,avarude suvisesham sadhasyare kelppikkuvaananu.athu dheiva sabhayil orikkalum sweekaryamaakunna karyamalla ennu mathram.dheiva sabhayude susrushavedhikalil visaalahrudhayanmarkkalla viswaasikalkku maathrame sthanamullu.
Seperation ennal viswasichu rakshikkapettu snaanappettittu(viswaasi)llavarallathavarodu,mindikkooda,thottukooda ennatharathilulla asahishnuthayude anubhavamalla,naam sweekaricha viswasathe mattu dheiva viswaasangalumaayi compromise cheyyatha verpaadu ennanartham.Avarum dheivatheyaanallo vilikkunnathu,avideyum athbhuthangalokke nadakkunnundallo,ellaam onnuthannennu chinthichu mindathirikkunna sahakaranam undaakaruthu ennathaanu separation ennathinte pradhaana artham.naam sweekaricha viswaasathekurichu vyakthamaaya oru dhaaranayundenkil maathrame bible anusaasikkunna verpadu enthennu manassilaakukayullu.sathyaviswaasathinte aadhikaarikatha sakalareyum bhodhyappeduthendathu oru viswaasiyude kadamayaanu.ennaal oru bishop/politician stajil kayarunnathu suviseshom kelkkanalla,avarude suvisesham sadhasyare kelppikkuvaananu.athu dheiva sabhayil orikkalum sweekaryamaakunna karyamalla ennu mathram.dheiva sabhayude susrushavedhikalil visaalahrudhayanmarkkalla viswaasikalkku maathrame sthanamullu.
-4
joy chembakasseril, usa. (January 20, 2012)
to thomas vemmelil- contd 1- i have read about this matha amruthanandhamayi, she spent hours and hours in prayers! i do not know who she is praying too, but that she does that ! that don't make her 'holy' unless she does the right prayers, i know that ! there has been several instances were i had to hugh or shake hands with some one, when i really don't want to, but that i was satisfying a social norm, a courtesy ! sometimes some people smile at me, i would call it a monkey-smile, because, there is nothing in it, no passion or sincerety, and its not at all from the purity of the heart, but that i have to take, because of their labor, trying to satisfy a social-norm. the thirumeni was hughing matha amruthanandhamayi and he was satisfying a social norm or a custom, a courtesy, there is nothing in it to be looked down as an un-holy thing. by doing that the thirumeni was not at all worshipping a goddess. this goddess is doing many good things for mankind, with the money, any comment ?
to thomas vemmelil- contd 1- i have read about this matha amruthanandhamayi, she spent hours and hours in prayers! i do not know who she is praying too, but that she does that ! that don't make her 'holy' unless she does the right prayers, i know that ! there has been several instances were i had to hugh or shake hands with some one, when i really don't want to, but that i was satisfying a social norm, a courtesy ! sometimes some people smile at me, i would call it a monkey-smile, because, there is nothing in it, no passion or sincerety, and its not at all from the purity of the heart, but that i have to take, because of their labor, trying to satisfy a social-norm. the thirumeni was hughing matha amruthanandhamayi and he was satisfying a social norm or a custom, a courtesy, there is nothing in it to be looked down as an un-holy thing. by doing that the thirumeni was not at all worshipping a goddess. this goddess is doing many good things for mankind, with the money, any comment ?
0
joy chembakasseril, usa. (January 20, 2012)
to thomas vemmelil- the " kiss" and "hugh" are entirely two different things! the notation in the bible is about a "holy kiss". but even when i say that, i am not too sure about the word-terminology in the bible, the interpretation of holy-spirit into the worldly language and the limitations on it and the competency or in-competency of the person interpreting it ! "is it a ' holy kiss' or a ' holy hugh' " ? say for example, (1) if its supposed to be a holy kiss, the why are the people hughing in the church ! looks very artificial and ritualistic to me. (2) if its supposed to be a holy kiss then why in south indian churches the opposite sexes don't share them ? looks very artificial and unholy to me. the hugh and the kiss are entirely two different things- the hugh has mostly a formal nature and the kiss has an emotional nature, so to speak. now the thirumeni was hughing the matha amruthanandhamayi and not kissing. i have read about the matha, contd 1
to thomas vemmelil- the " kiss" and "hugh" are entirely two different things! the notation in the bible is about a "holy kiss". but even when i say that, i am not too sure about the word-terminology in the bible, the interpretation of holy-spirit into the worldly language and the limitations on it and the competency or in-competency of the person interpreting it ! "is it a ' holy kiss' or a ' holy hugh' " ? say for example, (1) if its supposed to be a holy kiss, the why are the people hughing in the church ! looks very artificial and ritualistic to me. (2) if its supposed to be a holy kiss then why in south indian churches the opposite sexes don't share them ? looks very artificial and unholy to me. the hugh and the kiss are entirely two different things- the hugh has mostly a formal nature and the kiss has an emotional nature, so to speak. now the thirumeni was hughing the matha amruthanandhamayi and not kissing. i have read about the matha, contd 1
0
a. s. mathew (January 20, 2012)
Contd:- heaven and sent a Charismatic revival touching all denominations. The Catholic Church in India has a youth evangelistic team and they do real evangelization among the young people. In the olden days " evangelization" was totally an alien word for the Catholic Church. We should not participate in a worship with other believers if they are worshipping any other diety other than JESUS CHRIST. In our extreme holiness spirit, if we are totally blinded and ignore other followers of Christ as unholy, that is a one sided theology of holiness and separation. Somewhere I read this funny story. The Methodist believer was escorted by the angels in heaven and while showing the different locations of various denominations, at one area the angel told the believer, be quite in this area. When the believer asked why, the angel replied " that area belongs to the Church of Christ, they think they are the only people in heaven, so let them believe so".
Contd:- heaven and sent a Charismatic revival touching all denominations. The Catholic Church in India has a youth evangelistic team and they do real evangelization among the young people. In the olden days " evangelization" was totally an alien word for the Catholic Church. We should not participate in a worship with other believers if they are worshipping any other diety other than JESUS CHRIST. In our extreme holiness spirit, if we are totally blinded and ignore other followers of Christ as unholy, that is a one sided theology of holiness and separation. Somewhere I read this funny story. The Methodist believer was escorted by the angels in heaven and while showing the different locations of various denominations, at one area the angel told the believer, be quite in this area. When the believer asked why, the angel replied " that area belongs to the Church of Christ, they think they are the only people in heaven, so let them believe so".
0
a. s. mathew (January 20, 2012)
brother kunjachan: thepraize and myself are not disputing your
pleading of separation and holiness. if a man be in christ, he is
a new creature, and there is a new beginning in life by turning away
from sin to holiness. when dr. billy graham went to see pope john
paul ii, he told dr. billy graham that "we are brothers". more than
40 years back, the catholic church never motivated the believers to
read bible, but now the catholic church is opening big bible depots
to distribute bibles to their believers and to the public. when
benny hinn conducted two crusades in bombay and bangalore, there
were catholic bishops-priests and nuns at the meetings. when the
reformation movement was started by martin luther, a great wall of
separation was established, and that wall was getting taller and
wider down through the centuries. but god saw that big divide from
contd:
brother kunjachan: thepraize and myself are not disputing your
pleading of separation and holiness. if a man be in christ, he is
a new creature, and there is a new beginning in life by turning away
from sin to holiness. when dr. billy graham went to see pope john
paul ii, he told dr. billy graham that "we are brothers". more than
40 years back, the catholic church never motivated the believers to
read bible, but now the catholic church is opening big bible depots
to distribute bibles to their believers and to the public. when
benny hinn conducted two crusades in bombay and bangalore, there
were catholic bishops-priests and nuns at the meetings. when the
reformation movement was started by martin luther, a great wall of
separation was established, and that wall was getting taller and
wider down through the centuries. but god saw that big divide from
contd:
0
a. s. mathew (January 20, 2012)
brorther thomas vemmeli; in course of time, i may be writing about
many people, but i am a solid follower of jesus christ, because i couldn't
find somebody better than him, and will never find anybody better
than him to follow, and he died for my sins. on the other hand, i have an open mind to respect
the goodness of many great people of history for what they have done
for humanity in social justice and humanitarian work. i have more
respect for a person of any faith who is washing the wounds of the
helpless person in the street, than a person praying inside the
closet without doing anything for the suffering humanity. the real
love-compassion and faith i could find in mother teresa than many
other well known christians of our time. my failure in discernment
took place while handling many ordinary ministers who took the name of jesus christ and acted as saintly people.... that terrible honest
mistake has to be
brorther thomas vemmeli; in course of time, i may be writing about
many people, but i am a solid follower of jesus christ, because i couldn't
find somebody better than him, and will never find anybody better
than him to follow, and he died for my sins. on the other hand, i have an open mind to respect
the goodness of many great people of history for what they have done
for humanity in social justice and humanitarian work. i have more
respect for a person of any faith who is washing the wounds of the
helpless person in the street, than a person praying inside the
closet without doing anything for the suffering humanity. the real
love-compassion and faith i could find in mother teresa than many
other well known christians of our time. my failure in discernment
took place while handling many ordinary ministers who took the name of jesus christ and acted as saintly people.... that terrible honest
mistake has to be
0
a. s. mathew (January 20, 2012)
brother joy chembakasseril: you will be getting my e-mail address
soon. i feel very young after reading your comment about the picture, many thanks.
brother joy chembakasseril: you will be getting my e-mail address
soon. i feel very young after reading your comment about the picture, many thanks.
+1
kunjachan (January 20, 2012)
Contd.... The link just before the Pentecostal was the brethren teaching. It was very specific in observing separation & holiness. But they held in a misinterpretation of 1cori.13:10,as the perfect to come is the Bible in complete and taught spiritual gifts stopped. 1cori.13:12 is clear in the matter of the perfect to come is the face to face meeting with Jesus Christ & everlasting life with Him.
So the reality God revealed for us is in (1) Eden, (2)Apostolic church and (3) situation described in Rev.22:1-5. Please do not look back except to the apostolic tradition.Times of ignorance God over looks ( Acts.17:30). If the same teaching of the apostolic period has revealed to this generation we are the most lucky as said in Hebrews.11:40. Let God Bless us.
Contd.... The link just before the Pentecostal was the brethren teaching. It was very specific in observing separation & holiness. But they held in a misinterpretation of 1cori.13:10,as the perfect to come is the Bible in complete and taught spiritual gifts stopped. 1cori.13:12 is clear in the matter of the perfect to come is the face to face meeting with Jesus Christ & everlasting life with Him.
So the reality God revealed for us is in (1) Eden, (2)Apostolic church and (3) situation described in Rev.22:1-5. Please do not look back except to the apostolic tradition.Times of ignorance God over looks ( Acts.17:30). If the same teaching of the apostolic period has revealed to this generation we are the most lucky as said in Hebrews.11:40. Let God Bless us.
-2
kunjachan (January 20, 2012)
@ Bros.a.s.mathew $ theprize.The culture and surroundings we live will naturally influence our views on scripture too.But God's plan is very clear.He revealed it first in the garden of Eden.Next He called Abraham demanding separation and set him in the land of canaan. From there Jacob's generation was sent to slavery under Pharaoh for 400 years. Then He brought them back to canaan,in clear separation from other people.
History repeats, when the new testament church was established on the day of Pentecost. After revealing His plan about the N.T. church during the 1st 3 centuries,the apostolic church was sent to slavery under Roman religion (caused formation of Roman Catholic Church) through empire Constantine(the total black period).After about 1200 years a small light was given through Fr.Martin Luther.From there the revelation is in evolution principle. Finally it has come to the present Pentecostal revelation exactly same to that of the apostolic church. Contd...
@ Bros.a.s.mathew $ theprize.The culture and surroundings we live will naturally influence our views on scripture too.But God's plan is very clear.He revealed it first in the garden of Eden.Next He called Abraham demanding separation and set him in the land of canaan. From there Jacob's generation was sent to slavery under Pharaoh for 400 years. Then He brought them back to canaan,in clear separation from other people.
History repeats, when the new testament church was established on the day of Pentecost. After revealing His plan about the N.T. church during the 1st 3 centuries,the apostolic church was sent to slavery under Roman religion (caused formation of Roman Catholic Church) through empire Constantine(the total black period).After about 1200 years a small light was given through Fr.Martin Luther.From there the revelation is in evolution principle. Finally it has come to the present Pentecostal revelation exactly same to that of the apostolic church. Contd...
-2
thomas vemmelil (January 20, 2012)
Bro.A S Mathew:- Good that you have "simply" written about Amruthanandamayi to the extent of glorifying her. It "simply" took me to think that you were also a follower of "matha". Praying God to grant me the "spirit of discernment" to understand your "simply" writings!!
Bro.A S Mathew:- Good that you have "simply" written about Amruthanandamayi to the extent of glorifying her. It "simply" took me to think that you were also a follower of "matha". Praying God to grant me the "spirit of discernment" to understand your "simply" writings!!
+7
a. s. mathew (January 20, 2012)
brother thomas vemmeli; i do agree with you 101% about the comment
that the ministrial jobs have been professionalized. in all the
denominations, in the olden times, the ministers suffered a lot of
financial agony, but now it is a very high paid job, and some of
them are richer than big business owners, doing business through the
ministry.
brother thomas vemmeli; i do agree with you 101% about the comment
that the ministrial jobs have been professionalized. in all the
denominations, in the olden times, the ministers suffered a lot of
financial agony, but now it is a very high paid job, and some of
them are richer than big business owners, doing business through the
ministry.
+2
thomas vemmelil (January 20, 2012)
Bro A S Mathew.....contd. If someone is sick, he looks for a doctor; when he has a lawsuit, he looks for a lawyer; and in the like manner when he wants to worship God, he looks for a pastor. Tell me if it is a gift or a profession?? In Pentecostalism pastoring has become a mere profession as it is in Catholicism. Tell me what difference does a Pentecostal "priest" have from a Catholic priest unless otherwise that one can marry and the other cannot. Do you want Kanam Achan to wear a "shining" garment like the modern Pentecostal pastors and exhibit himself along with them in the convention stages!!This is altogether against the principle and teaching of the New Testament. In the New Testament we do not need to look for a pastor in order to serve God. Every saved one can draw near to God and serve God directly; there is no need for a group of believers who specialize in this line and do everything for others.
Bro A S Mathew.....contd. If someone is sick, he looks for a doctor; when he has a lawsuit, he looks for a lawyer; and in the like manner when he wants to worship God, he looks for a pastor. Tell me if it is a gift or a profession?? In Pentecostalism pastoring has become a mere profession as it is in Catholicism. Tell me what difference does a Pentecostal "priest" have from a Catholic priest unless otherwise that one can marry and the other cannot. Do you want Kanam Achan to wear a "shining" garment like the modern Pentecostal pastors and exhibit himself along with them in the convention stages!!This is altogether against the principle and teaching of the New Testament. In the New Testament we do not need to look for a pastor in order to serve God. Every saved one can draw near to God and serve God directly; there is no need for a group of believers who specialize in this line and do everything for others.
+6
a. s. mathew (January 20, 2012)
contd: wild fire. In those denominations, even believers baptism is
not practiced, but only infant baptism. Perhaps, the whole Baptist
denominations are far strongly against the charismatic movement than
the Catholic or other Episcopal Churches. Among the Baptist Ministers, in 1968, John Austin (father of Joel Austin) in Houston got the filling of the Holy Spirit and he became a great leader
of the Charismatic movement.
After the world evangelism conference in Amsterdam sponsored by the Dr. Billy Graham, the Lord's supper was undertaken by the Bishop of Canterburry (Anglican). People of all denominations participated,
but when I questioned some of my Pentecostal friends, they replied
that they will not participate in such a Lord's supper. We
are all different in our outlook, evaluation and definition of
holiness and separation; but we must be always be alert about our
relationship with JESUS and our fellowship wi
contd: wild fire. In those denominations, even believers baptism is
not practiced, but only infant baptism. Perhaps, the whole Baptist
denominations are far strongly against the charismatic movement than
the Catholic or other Episcopal Churches. Among the Baptist Ministers, in 1968, John Austin (father of Joel Austin) in Houston got the filling of the Holy Spirit and he became a great leader
of the Charismatic movement.
After the world evangelism conference in Amsterdam sponsored by the Dr. Billy Graham, the Lord's supper was undertaken by the Bishop of Canterburry (Anglican). People of all denominations participated,
but when I questioned some of my Pentecostal friends, they replied
that they will not participate in such a Lord's supper. We
are all different in our outlook, evaluation and definition of
holiness and separation; but we must be always be alert about our
relationship with JESUS and our fellowship wi
+2
a. s. mathew (January 20, 2012)
brother kunjachan: i am very happy for your forward spiritual journey of life. a lot of pentecostal teachings and traditions are blindly followed from the u.s.a. and a lot of other man-made teachings began to get stronger and they became a traditions. in my younger days, the pentecostal believers and pastors had great zeal in evangelization. so, some of them told me with passion that even if you are born-again, you must be baptized and be filled with the holy spirit and speak in tongues. the spiritual format was born again baptized and be filled with the holy spirit. so, god wanted to show that the filling of the holy spirit is not in that direction, but it is god's gift to all the believers irrespective of their denominational affiliations. from norterdam catholic univeristy to the episcopal churches, the charismatic movement began to spread like contd:
brother kunjachan: i am very happy for your forward spiritual journey of life. a lot of pentecostal teachings and traditions are blindly followed from the u.s.a. and a lot of other man-made teachings began to get stronger and they became a traditions. in my younger days, the pentecostal believers and pastors had great zeal in evangelization. so, some of them told me with passion that even if you are born-again, you must be baptized and be filled with the holy spirit and speak in tongues. the spiritual format was born again baptized and be filled with the holy spirit. so, god wanted to show that the filling of the holy spirit is not in that direction, but it is god's gift to all the believers irrespective of their denominational affiliations. from norterdam catholic univeristy to the episcopal churches, the charismatic movement began to spread like contd:
0
thomas vemmelil (January 20, 2012)
Bro.A S Mathew:- Yes, as a Pastor, Kanam Achan could have shined far greater in the Ministry instead of being a poor evangelist. What a tragedy it is!! By becoming an evangelist he lost his shining priestly garment of the Orthodox church!! Being a Pastor he could have redeemed a better shining garment in Pentecostalism, but he has chosen to be an evangelist!!! Bro.Mathew, you must understand, the Pentecostal churches, even though they reject the priestly system, have produced other systems which in principle and nature are not much different. It is as if being a pastor is a profession. If someone wants to be a medical doctor, he goes to study in a medical school; if he wants to be a lawyer, he goes to a law school; and if he wants to be a pastor, he goes to a theological school. After one has finished his training in a theological school, he can be a pastor. This is the common view. ..contd
Bro.A S Mathew:- Yes, as a Pastor, Kanam Achan could have shined far greater in the Ministry instead of being a poor evangelist. What a tragedy it is!! By becoming an evangelist he lost his shining priestly garment of the Orthodox church!! Being a Pastor he could have redeemed a better shining garment in Pentecostalism, but he has chosen to be an evangelist!!! Bro.Mathew, you must understand, the Pentecostal churches, even though they reject the priestly system, have produced other systems which in principle and nature are not much different. It is as if being a pastor is a profession. If someone wants to be a medical doctor, he goes to study in a medical school; if he wants to be a lawyer, he goes to a law school; and if he wants to be a pastor, he goes to a theological school. After one has finished his training in a theological school, he can be a pastor. This is the common view. ..contd
+11
a. s. mathew (January 20, 2012)
brother thomas vemmeli: i have simply written what i have seen
about matha in t.v. i am not going to defend or criticize thiumeni
for his visit with her and hugging her. when one american lady
barbara hugged me in 1971 for the first time, i was a nervous wreck,
but down through the years, i have hugged a lot of american women in
the u.s.a. some indian believers have criticized me for that and said
it is a big sin.
brother thomas vemmeli: i have simply written what i have seen
about matha in t.v. i am not going to defend or criticize thiumeni
for his visit with her and hugging her. when one american lady
barbara hugged me in 1971 for the first time, i was a nervous wreck,
but down through the years, i have hugged a lot of american women in
the u.s.a. some indian believers have criticized me for that and said
it is a big sin.
+2
thepraize (January 20, 2012)
@kunjachan,sir please understand asm or me are not disputing the separation theory in the spiritual realm,all that asm is emphasising is separation in the spiritual realm should not separate us from our fellow beings around and we should convey acceptance and tolerance from our spiritual standpoint. I strongly believe our lifestyle should set an example for people to know Christ,rather than blowing our own trumpet of being a Christian,people should witness Christ like behavior in us and our expressions.Blessings
@kunjachan,sir please understand asm or me are not disputing the separation theory in the spiritual realm,all that asm is emphasising is separation in the spiritual realm should not separate us from our fellow beings around and we should convey acceptance and tolerance from our spiritual standpoint. I strongly believe our lifestyle should set an example for people to know Christ,rather than blowing our own trumpet of being a Christian,people should witness Christ like behavior in us and our expressions.Blessings
+3
kunjachan (January 20, 2012)
@ a.s.mathew. i am not a traditional pentecost. i was a roman catholic till my age of 45 and got word of god through charismatic retreat. i could understand, the camp of the lord of the world and the camp of the lamb of god are in entire separation. so i took separation wilfully. the separation is the key of salvation. a child of god can't have any compromise with the world order in spiritual matters. other things about pentecostal church i have stated earlier." and he himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets,some evangelists,and some pastors and teachers(ephe.4:11).here we see kanam achan has appointed as an evangelist.who can change it. innathe pentecosth nethaakkanmarkku pattiyirikkunna kuzhappam, avar aadhya sneham vittukalanjirikkunnu ennathu mathramaanu. lokathodu koodeyum koodi nilkkunnathanu kooduthal mecham ennu avar kandirikkunnu. dhanavanaakuvaan athu nalla marghavumaanallo!
@ a.s.mathew. i am not a traditional pentecost. i was a roman catholic till my age of 45 and got word of god through charismatic retreat. i could understand, the camp of the lord of the world and the camp of the lamb of god are in entire separation. so i took separation wilfully. the separation is the key of salvation. a child of god can't have any compromise with the world order in spiritual matters. other things about pentecostal church i have stated earlier." and he himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets,some evangelists,and some pastors and teachers(ephe.4:11).here we see kanam achan has appointed as an evangelist.who can change it. innathe pentecosth nethaakkanmarkku pattiyirikkunna kuzhappam, avar aadhya sneham vittukalanjirikkunnu ennathu mathramaanu. lokathodu koodeyum koodi nilkkunnathanu kooduthal mecham ennu avar kandirikkunnu. dhanavanaakuvaan athu nalla marghavumaanallo!
+1
thomas vemmelil (January 19, 2012)
bro. a s mathew:- what you have said about amruthanandamayi in your thread is not very clear to me, can you please explain what you wanted to establish out of it. what do you mean even if she had a catholic influence? don't you know even catholicism is a degraded church of idol worshippers?? what benefit does a christian have if the finance minister a k antony is an ardent disciple of amruthanandamayi? how can you compare an atheist with a bishop? a bishop cannot be an atheist nor be a politician. i think you are totally confused about it.
bro. a s mathew:- what you have said about amruthanandamayi in your thread is not very clear to me, can you please explain what you wanted to establish out of it. what do you mean even if she had a catholic influence? don't you know even catholicism is a degraded church of idol worshippers?? what benefit does a christian have if the finance minister a k antony is an ardent disciple of amruthanandamayi? how can you compare an atheist with a bishop? a bishop cannot be an atheist nor be a politician. i think you are totally confused about it.
+3
thomas vemmelil (January 19, 2012)
Shane Mathew:- The Bible says that we should kiss each other with a holy kiss (1 Cor. 16:20); it does not charge believers to merely kiss each other. The command of the Bible is that if anyone greets another with a kiss, the kiss should be holy. God's command is that when we kiss, we have to be holy. Paul has not charged us merely to kiss. Neither have the apostles charged everyone to kiss. Kissing can very easily become unholy; therefore, there is the charge to kiss with a holy kiss. I know some Pentecostals practise this kissing as a ritual after the The Lord's supper which is also debatable. The question now is why "thirumeni " goes to the self made goddess to receive hug from her?? There won't be any surprise if any Pentecostal "thirumenies" also go to Amruthanandamayi tomorrow to receive hugs from her!!! You guys are still there to support them!!!
Shane Mathew:- The Bible says that we should kiss each other with a holy kiss (1 Cor. 16:20); it does not charge believers to merely kiss each other. The command of the Bible is that if anyone greets another with a kiss, the kiss should be holy. God's command is that when we kiss, we have to be holy. Paul has not charged us merely to kiss. Neither have the apostles charged everyone to kiss. Kissing can very easily become unholy; therefore, there is the charge to kiss with a holy kiss. I know some Pentecostals practise this kissing as a ritual after the The Lord's supper which is also debatable. The question now is why "thirumeni " goes to the self made goddess to receive hug from her?? There won't be any surprise if any Pentecostal "thirumenies" also go to Amruthanandamayi tomorrow to receive hugs from her!!! You guys are still there to support them!!!
+2
sam mathew (January 19, 2012)
@Jennifer Thomas. The usage in the scripture 'being deceived' is misinterpreting by writing deceived from man. Not deceived from man but deceived by believing the word of Satan.In malayalam it is 'sthreeyathre vanchikkappettu lankhanathil akappettathu'.and she deceived Adam also. The reason pointed out by st. Paul under the direction of Holy Spirit especially in an epistle specific for guiding to how the church administration must be is very important. sabhayil ventaayennu parisuddhathmaavu paranjirikkunnathine vellu vilichukondu sabha valarthuvan adhwaanikkaruthu ennu mathrame parayunnullu. pinne, ennalum njangal prasangikkumennanenkil aarkku virodham? aarellam enthellam cheyyunnu? Please don't take this as a personal criticism. Thanks.
@Jennifer Thomas. The usage in the scripture 'being deceived' is misinterpreting by writing deceived from man. Not deceived from man but deceived by believing the word of Satan.In malayalam it is 'sthreeyathre vanchikkappettu lankhanathil akappettathu'.and she deceived Adam also. The reason pointed out by st. Paul under the direction of Holy Spirit especially in an epistle specific for guiding to how the church administration must be is very important. sabhayil ventaayennu parisuddhathmaavu paranjirikkunnathine vellu vilichukondu sabha valarthuvan adhwaanikkaruthu ennu mathrame parayunnullu. pinne, ennalum njangal prasangikkumennanenkil aarkku virodham? aarellam enthellam cheyyunnu? Please don't take this as a personal criticism. Thanks.
0
a., s. mathew (January 19, 2012)
BROTHER THEPRAIZE: Yes, it is my picture.
BROTHER THEPRAIZE: Yes, it is my picture.
+2
a. s. mathew (January 19, 2012)
Contd:- I knew personally some of Kanam Achans personal friends of his seminary days. He was well respected by his old friends as a person of back bone and convictions. Even though, he was well experienced as an Orthodox Priest, why he was not yet appointed as a Pastor. As a Pastor, he could have shined far greater in the ministry. Would you please answer it?
Contd:- I knew personally some of Kanam Achans personal friends of his seminary days. He was well respected by his old friends as a person of back bone and convictions. Even though, he was well experienced as an Orthodox Priest, why he was not yet appointed as a Pastor. As a Pastor, he could have shined far greater in the ministry. Would you please answer it?
+1
a. s. mathew (January 19, 2012)
brother kunjachan: i do sincerely appreciate your solid affinity with the pentecostal church. people of all denominations have such an attitude of loving their denominations. though i am getting old, some old memories are popping up with deep question marks. i do remember three priests joining the pentecostal churches more than 40 years back. kanam achen left his orthodox church, immediately got white pants and shirt, still very strongly standing for the word of god and ministering as a firebrand speaker. pathanapuram achen (maruthethu) left the evnagelical church and joined the ipc, got a lot of big positions in the church, later on moved to the u.s. and died. thengallil achan, left the knanaya church, but later went back to the same church due to the high pressure of then bishop bishop celmis (brother of vayala iduculla). contd: brother kunjachan, why the church god has not ordained kanam achen cont:-
brother kunjachan: i do sincerely appreciate your solid affinity with the pentecostal church. people of all denominations have such an attitude of loving their denominations. though i am getting old, some old memories are popping up with deep question marks. i do remember three priests joining the pentecostal churches more than 40 years back. kanam achen left his orthodox church, immediately got white pants and shirt, still very strongly standing for the word of god and ministering as a firebrand speaker. pathanapuram achen (maruthethu) left the evnagelical church and joined the ipc, got a lot of big positions in the church, later on moved to the u.s. and died. thengallil achan, left the knanaya church, but later went back to the same church due to the high pressure of then bishop bishop celmis (brother of vayala iduculla). contd: brother kunjachan, why the church god has not ordained kanam achen cont:-
0
a. s. mathew (January 19, 2012)
brother thepraize: thank you so much for your very inspiring
compliments. never give up in proclaiming those truths in which
we are deeply rooted: one day there will be many followers. for god
so loved the "world" and in that statement, people of all religions
and non-religious people are included.
brother joy chembakasseril: so happy to read your writing again.
brother thepraize: thank you so much for your very inspiring
compliments. never give up in proclaiming those truths in which
we are deeply rooted: one day there will be many followers. for god
so loved the "world" and in that statement, people of all religions
and non-religious people are included.
brother joy chembakasseril: so happy to read your writing again.
+1
jc (January 19, 2012)
to thepraize- asm posted the pic of a Malayalam movie star, mamootty, that's him mamootty , by the by my request for your e-mails addresses(thepraize & asm) ended up in deaf ears. I got certain matters to discuss !
to thepraize- asm posted the pic of a Malayalam movie star, mamootty, that's him mamootty , by the by my request for your e-mails addresses(thepraize & asm) ended up in deaf ears. I got certain matters to discuss !
+3
thepraize (January 19, 2012)
@asm you are spot on,i love to read your thoughts,gives a sense of universality,which I am trying to communicate to people with great enthusiasm,but find no takers.
@asm you are spot on,i love to read your thoughts,gives a sense of universality,which I am trying to communicate to people with great enthusiasm,but find no takers.
+1
thepraize (January 19, 2012)
@joy chembakasseril.welcome back sir after a short haitus,i am sure our valued respected readers will agree with me in unison that your absence was deeply felt,and we were deprived of your insights. Hope you enjoyed your short vacation,God Bless
@joy chembakasseril.welcome back sir after a short haitus,i am sure our valued respected readers will agree with me in unison that your absence was deeply felt,and we were deprived of your insights. Hope you enjoyed your short vacation,God Bless
+2
thepraize (January 19, 2012)
@asm is that your pic sir with the article,just to confirm out of personal interest.God Bless
@asm is that your pic sir with the article,just to confirm out of personal interest.God Bless
+1
a. s. mathew (January 19, 2012)
When we take an attitude of " our seats are already reserved in
heaven, so get ready in a rush to reach there", that is a very
selfish attitude which is totally unscriptural. One day, while riding with a well known Kerala Pentecostal preacher and a Kerala Baptist
Pastor of an Afro-American Church, they started a very hot argument
about the Holy Spirit (speaking on tongues). There was another passenger with us, who was
a former Hindu, highly educated person came to Jesus Christ after
landing in the U.S.A. from Africa. He was a baby in Christ, and here
two denominational scholars are wasting their time and creating
friction through the untimely argument touching a minor doctrine of
the Bible. The Hindu convert was confused while looking at his face. We believers have far greater roles to play in our short
and limited time on earth, but we are brainwashed by doctrines and
simple issues and fighting each other for thos
When we take an attitude of " our seats are already reserved in
heaven, so get ready in a rush to reach there", that is a very
selfish attitude which is totally unscriptural. One day, while riding with a well known Kerala Pentecostal preacher and a Kerala Baptist
Pastor of an Afro-American Church, they started a very hot argument
about the Holy Spirit (speaking on tongues). There was another passenger with us, who was
a former Hindu, highly educated person came to Jesus Christ after
landing in the U.S.A. from Africa. He was a baby in Christ, and here
two denominational scholars are wasting their time and creating
friction through the untimely argument touching a minor doctrine of
the Bible. The Hindu convert was confused while looking at his face. We believers have far greater roles to play in our short
and limited time on earth, but we are brainwashed by doctrines and
simple issues and fighting each other for thos
0
a. s. mathew (January 19, 2012)
a few years back, my close hindu patel friend invited me to attend the first long hair-cutting ceremony of his son in a temple in chicago. i was very reluctant at first, but his compelled us to go. i got inside the temple, they were chanting something in hindi or sankrit, i kept quite watching them. then i saw so many big idols, and i prayed inside the building to god, let these people see the living god jesus christ one day. i am not telling that it is due to my prayer, but my friend's children are now 75% of christian faith.
some other friends from rajastan were distributing bhagavat gita, and
they gave me one and i have read certain portions of it. i took them
to our church and they said, that is for the first time they ever
had been inside a church. the fields are white unto harvest. in our
holiness march, we are forming a very dangerous mentality of total
isolation even from believers of other christian denominations.
contd:-
a few years back, my close hindu patel friend invited me to attend the first long hair-cutting ceremony of his son in a temple in chicago. i was very reluctant at first, but his compelled us to go. i got inside the temple, they were chanting something in hindi or sankrit, i kept quite watching them. then i saw so many big idols, and i prayed inside the building to god, let these people see the living god jesus christ one day. i am not telling that it is due to my prayer, but my friend's children are now 75% of christian faith.
some other friends from rajastan were distributing bhagavat gita, and
they gave me one and i have read certain portions of it. i took them
to our church and they said, that is for the first time they ever
had been inside a church. the fields are white unto harvest. in our
holiness march, we are forming a very dangerous mentality of total
isolation even from believers of other christian denominations.
contd:-
0
kunjachan (January 19, 2012)
Contd...If the thirst is real,sincere and not for self gains and boasting, surely Holy Spirit will guide with power of anointment.The number of training schools have no limitation prescribed. Each believer is called for this. But have to confirm his specific appointment from Heaven. Do not go behind the praising and recognition of the world. Better to make the gained,'Jewels' by training, than making chance for tear when see the large, gained improperly is burnt, when tested with fire, like Wood,hay or straw.
Contd...If the thirst is real,sincere and not for self gains and boasting, surely Holy Spirit will guide with power of anointment.The number of training schools have no limitation prescribed. Each believer is called for this. But have to confirm his specific appointment from Heaven. Do not go behind the praising and recognition of the world. Better to make the gained,'Jewels' by training, than making chance for tear when see the large, gained improperly is burnt, when tested with fire, like Wood,hay or straw.
0
kunjachan (January 19, 2012)
Many people have confusion about Pentecostal churches.Pentecostal Churches are expected to be training schools for all human beings to enter and live a spiritual life strictly according to the Word of God to make them qualified to retain in the one and only,worldwide church,the body of Christ.It must follow the tradition of the apostolic church established on the day of Pentecost at Jerusalem described in Acts of apostles and followed epistles.Training schools can be under the leadership of any body who has talent.But the CHURCH will be only under the leadership of Jesus Christ and administration of the Holy Spirit. If the syllabus taught in the training schools are strictly according to the scripture, the text,the trainees will be qualified for entry with feast with Lamb for ever. If any one sees a training school is not up to the standard,it is better to have a model of right standard than simply criticising. Contd..
Many people have confusion about Pentecostal churches.Pentecostal Churches are expected to be training schools for all human beings to enter and live a spiritual life strictly according to the Word of God to make them qualified to retain in the one and only,worldwide church,the body of Christ.It must follow the tradition of the apostolic church established on the day of Pentecost at Jerusalem described in Acts of apostles and followed epistles.Training schools can be under the leadership of any body who has talent.But the CHURCH will be only under the leadership of Jesus Christ and administration of the Holy Spirit. If the syllabus taught in the training schools are strictly according to the scripture, the text,the trainees will be qualified for entry with feast with Lamb for ever. If any one sees a training school is not up to the standard,it is better to have a model of right standard than simply criticising. Contd..
0
jayakumar (January 19, 2012)
@thomas vemmelil Do you heard him at least one time before posting such a *** comment?
@thomas vemmelil Do you heard him at least one time before posting such a *** comment?
+1
jennifer thomas (January 18, 2012)
to sam mathew- aaraanu eppool muyalinu kombhuddhennu parayaneea ? ninghal thanneea alleea ? based on the bible notation you referring to - 1 thimothy ch2 v 11&12&13&14 - just because woman is deceived from man they have no authority over men, which means woman has no administering authority over men, which means, they cannot be in charge of a church or any assembly were men is also a party in it ! this is from the physical point of view, as man and woman. but the soul of a man and a woman is equal to god. so nothing can hold us from, praising god or propagating the word of god, the gospel ! woman can become, an evangelist or a witness to god were ever god sent us and there is nothing wrong in it ! i hope you understand !!!
to sam mathew- aaraanu eppool muyalinu kombhuddhennu parayaneea ? ninghal thanneea alleea ? based on the bible notation you referring to - 1 thimothy ch2 v 11&12&13&14 - just because woman is deceived from man they have no authority over men, which means woman has no administering authority over men, which means, they cannot be in charge of a church or any assembly were men is also a party in it ! this is from the physical point of view, as man and woman. but the soul of a man and a woman is equal to god. so nothing can hold us from, praising god or propagating the word of god, the gospel ! woman can become, an evangelist or a witness to god were ever god sent us and there is nothing wrong in it ! i hope you understand !!!
+2
sam thomas (January 18, 2012)
@sam mathew. no no no our god will never fail. see rom. 3:4 & matt.5:18. his word will stand without change in a jot or tittle till the end. those who are giving their own interpretation to the scripture only will fail finally.
@sam mathew. no no no our god will never fail. see rom. 3:4 & matt.5:18. his word will stand without change in a jot or tittle till the end. those who are giving their own interpretation to the scripture only will fail finally.
-2
shane mathew, ca (January 18, 2012)
to thomas vemmelil-- oh no oh no, you got carried away in your enthusiasm in expressing your point-of-view ! and that's the problem with some of you christians, you over-react, and interpret things wrong . that 'thirumeni' the bishop, if he happens to read what you wrote, will be certainly laughing at you and your restlessness ! does giving a hugh or a hand-shake means worshiping somebody ? ya ya ya ya ya - you should be out of your mind ! you have 'the lords table' in your church, right, after the lords-table don't you hugh each other ? does that mean you all worship each other ? i know its a tough question for you to answer now, well don't struggle with it, if you find an answer, answer me, other don't worry !
to thomas vemmelil-- oh no oh no, you got carried away in your enthusiasm in expressing your point-of-view ! and that's the problem with some of you christians, you over-react, and interpret things wrong . that 'thirumeni' the bishop, if he happens to read what you wrote, will be certainly laughing at you and your restlessness ! does giving a hugh or a hand-shake means worshiping somebody ? ya ya ya ya ya - you should be out of your mind ! you have 'the lords table' in your church, right, after the lords-table don't you hugh each other ? does that mean you all worship each other ? i know its a tough question for you to answer now, well don't struggle with it, if you find an answer, answer me, other don't worry !
-1
a. s. mathew (January 18, 2012)
about matha amruthanadamayi, there was a special programme in abc
20/20 last year. in her younger days, she had a great influence
from a local catholic church and the priest as a father figure. in
her small office, there were two pictures. one big picture of
jesus christ and another picture of lord krishna. even though she
has a red spot on the forehead, her religious faith is like a
universal unitarian. defence minister a.k. anthony is not a religious
believer but a very true disciple of matha. for her birthday celebrations, people of all faith are showing up. this i have written
for the general information of the readers.
about matha amruthanadamayi, there was a special programme in abc
20/20 last year. in her younger days, she had a great influence
from a local catholic church and the priest as a father figure. in
her small office, there were two pictures. one big picture of
jesus christ and another picture of lord krishna. even though she
has a red spot on the forehead, her religious faith is like a
universal unitarian. defence minister a.k. anthony is not a religious
believer but a very true disciple of matha. for her birthday celebrations, people of all faith are showing up. this i have written
for the general information of the readers.
+1
tom (January 18, 2012)
You got it joy. Finally . That exatly it mean, no administering authority.
You got it joy. Finally . That exatly it mean, no administering authority.
+2
sam mathew (January 18, 2012)
ea charcha vedhi valare anunghrahamaakendathaanu. ennaal thiruvezhuthu enthaayalum njaan pidicha muyalinu 3 cheviyundu ennu sthaapikkuvaan aarenkulum aaghrahichaal dheivavum thottupokukaye ullu.
ea charcha vedhi valare anunghrahamaakendathaanu. ennaal thiruvezhuthu enthaayalum njaan pidicha muyalinu 3 cheviyundu ennu sthaapikkuvaan aarenkulum aaghrahichaal dheivavum thottupokukaye ullu.
-3
thomas vemmelil (January 18, 2012)
thepraize:- on what ground you believe that the metroplitan is a believer?? your answer to this question will be the answer to your question to bro. jijo??? has the metropolitan ever proclaimed loudly that christ is the son of god who died and resurrected on the third day and christ is the only god and the way of salvation to man? do you not believe receiving hugs from the goddess amruthanadamayi is a kind of worship to her?? you may argue "thirumeni " went and received the hug because he was so generous to others. our politicians also have this kind of generosity!! i ask you brothers who support the " thirumeni", do you all believe christ is the only god or one of the gods ? do not be lukewarm, be cold or be warm otherwise god will vomit you out of his mouth. this message to the laodicean church is fittingly directed to ipc as well because " this thirumeni" is now become one among the many "thirumenies" of ipc being the centre of attraction of the kumbanad convention.
thepraize:- on what ground you believe that the metroplitan is a believer?? your answer to this question will be the answer to your question to bro. jijo??? has the metropolitan ever proclaimed loudly that christ is the son of god who died and resurrected on the third day and christ is the only god and the way of salvation to man? do you not believe receiving hugs from the goddess amruthanadamayi is a kind of worship to her?? you may argue "thirumeni " went and received the hug because he was so generous to others. our politicians also have this kind of generosity!! i ask you brothers who support the " thirumeni", do you all believe christ is the only god or one of the gods ? do not be lukewarm, be cold or be warm otherwise god will vomit you out of his mouth. this message to the laodicean church is fittingly directed to ipc as well because " this thirumeni" is now become one among the many "thirumenies" of ipc being the centre of attraction of the kumbanad convention.
+7
joy chembakasseril. (January 18, 2012)
to sam mathew-- i understand your point,according to the bible- 1thimothy ch2 v11&12&13&14- a woman should learn in silence with full submission.i do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead,she is to be silent.for adam was created first,then eve. and adam was not deceived,but the woman was deceived and transgressed.
well,i have read this portion many times before and has meditated on it many a time! my understanding is that "woman has no authority over man because she is deceived from a portion of man",creation itself point out to the fact,woman is supposed to be a partner or an accomplice to man,and in no-way can be a leader to man.this also proves that man and woman are no equals!
here in the biblical sense,as to what it is to my understanding is that--woman has no administering authority in the church which includes men!but they can certainly preach gospel and can be stage speakers,nothing wrong in that,but cannot own aut
to sam mathew-- i understand your point,according to the bible- 1thimothy ch2 v11&12&13&14- a woman should learn in silence with full submission.i do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead,she is to be silent.for adam was created first,then eve. and adam was not deceived,but the woman was deceived and transgressed.
well,i have read this portion many times before and has meditated on it many a time! my understanding is that "woman has no authority over man because she is deceived from a portion of man",creation itself point out to the fact,woman is supposed to be a partner or an accomplice to man,and in no-way can be a leader to man.this also proves that man and woman are no equals!
here in the biblical sense,as to what it is to my understanding is that--woman has no administering authority in the church which includes men!but they can certainly preach gospel and can be stage speakers,nothing wrong in that,but cannot own aut
+1
joy chembakasseril, usa. (January 18, 2012)
to jijo-- i would appreciate, if you can explain to us your criteria for an avisvaasi ! ninghal oruvaneea avisvaasi ennu vilicchu maatti nirutthiyaal, avannodeghaneea suvisheaasham parayum ! please explain who is a aviswaasi !
to jijo-- i would appreciate, if you can explain to us your criteria for an avisvaasi ! ninghal oruvaneea avisvaasi ennu vilicchu maatti nirutthiyaal, avannodeghaneea suvisheaasham parayum ! please explain who is a aviswaasi !
+1
james (January 17, 2012)
@jijo Mattullavarodulla ningalude asahishnutha ithra bhhekaramanenkil avarodu ningal enthu SUVISHESHAM parayum?
@jijo Mattullavarodulla ningalude asahishnutha ithra bhhekaramanenkil avarodu ningal enthu SUVISHESHAM parayum?
+3
a. s. mathew (January 17, 2012)
Contd:- Gospel Hall (Brethren Church) 48 years back. Later on he willingly opened his school (St. Mary's) for the Pentecostal and Brethren Churches to conduct their meetings. He was an Orthodox Church member. Then Bishop of the Church, Daniel Mar Philexinos Tirumeni (he was the first President of our Kudumbayogam) called him to the Bishop's palace close to the college and questioned him " why did you rent a room for the Gospel Hall? Advocate T.G. Abraham replied "Thirumeni, I have rented a whole building behind the gospel hall for the foreign ---- shop, what you think about it? He repeated that since giving the place for Pentecostals and Brethren people, I have been more blessed. The Bishop didn't question about the foreign brandy-whisky shop, but was concerned with the Gospel Hall! If such a Bishop is invited to speak at the Pentecostal convention, that is highly questionable. But this is another situation.
Contd:- Gospel Hall (Brethren Church) 48 years back. Later on he willingly opened his school (St. Mary's) for the Pentecostal and Brethren Churches to conduct their meetings. He was an Orthodox Church member. Then Bishop of the Church, Daniel Mar Philexinos Tirumeni (he was the first President of our Kudumbayogam) called him to the Bishop's palace close to the college and questioned him " why did you rent a room for the Gospel Hall? Advocate T.G. Abraham replied "Thirumeni, I have rented a whole building behind the gospel hall for the foreign ---- shop, what you think about it? He repeated that since giving the place for Pentecostals and Brethren people, I have been more blessed. The Bishop didn't question about the foreign brandy-whisky shop, but was concerned with the Gospel Hall! If such a Bishop is invited to speak at the Pentecostal convention, that is highly questionable. But this is another situation.
+1
a. s. mathew (January 17, 2012)
brothr jijo: i am not disputing your opinion. the bishop's visit
for the first time in ipc convention has created confusion to many and
excitement for yet another group of believers. most of the bishops have taken totally unscriptural actions through excommunications
of believers for taking believer's baptism, but that trend is
reversing in the marthoma church. so, let us see the wall breaking
trend and try to understand each other more.
if a bishop is totally anti-pentecostal in every turn, even at that
situation, we must be tolerable towards that bishop if he has a
repented heart.
when the priests become bishops, even the highly spiritual priests
are put into a chair and totally trasformed as church administrators.
advocate t. g. abraham was a prominent-influential and wealthy person
in pathanamthitta who was a close friend of my father. my father
had to influence him to rent one room of
brothr jijo: i am not disputing your opinion. the bishop's visit
for the first time in ipc convention has created confusion to many and
excitement for yet another group of believers. most of the bishops have taken totally unscriptural actions through excommunications
of believers for taking believer's baptism, but that trend is
reversing in the marthoma church. so, let us see the wall breaking
trend and try to understand each other more.
if a bishop is totally anti-pentecostal in every turn, even at that
situation, we must be tolerable towards that bishop if he has a
repented heart.
when the priests become bishops, even the highly spiritual priests
are put into a chair and totally trasformed as church administrators.
advocate t. g. abraham was a prominent-influential and wealthy person
in pathanamthitta who was a close friend of my father. my father
had to influence him to rent one room of
+2
a. s. mathew (January 17, 2012)
brothr jijo: i am not disputing your opinion. the bishop's visit for the first time in ipc convention has created confusion to many and excitement for yet another group of believers. most of the bishops have taken totally unscriptural actions through excommunications of believers for taking believer's baptism, but that trend is reversing in the marthoma church. so, let us see the wall breaking trend and try to understand each other more. if a bishop is totally anti-pentecostal in every turn, even at that situation, we must be tolerable towards that bishop if he has a repented heart. when the priests become bishops, even the highly spiritual priests are put into a chair and totally trasformed as church administrators. advocate t. g. abraham was a prominent-influential and wealthy person in pathanamthitta who was a close friend of my father. my father had to influence him to rent one room of his building for the first contd:-
brothr jijo: i am not disputing your opinion. the bishop's visit for the first time in ipc convention has created confusion to many and excitement for yet another group of believers. most of the bishops have taken totally unscriptural actions through excommunications of believers for taking believer's baptism, but that trend is reversing in the marthoma church. so, let us see the wall breaking trend and try to understand each other more. if a bishop is totally anti-pentecostal in every turn, even at that situation, we must be tolerable towards that bishop if he has a repented heart. when the priests become bishops, even the highly spiritual priests are put into a chair and totally trasformed as church administrators. advocate t. g. abraham was a prominent-influential and wealthy person in pathanamthitta who was a close friend of my father. my father had to influence him to rent one room of his building for the first contd:-
+2
sam mathew (January 17, 2012)
Sorry,wise brothers.I need not to enter in a dispute. But I believe if other things written by Paul is acceptable to us 1Thim.2:12 too must be acceptable and obeyed. Other activities may be accounted in God's general plan to proclaim the good news of salvation to every one in the world as KUNJACHAN quoted 4 days ago.
Sorry,wise brothers.I need not to enter in a dispute. But I believe if other things written by Paul is acceptable to us 1Thim.2:12 too must be acceptable and obeyed. Other activities may be accounted in God's general plan to proclaim the good news of salvation to every one in the world as KUNJACHAN quoted 4 days ago.
-3
thepraize (January 17, 2012)
@jijo,would appreciate if you can include your thoughts on how you arrived at the fact that the metroplitan is an avishwaasi.Thanks
@jijo,would appreciate if you can include your thoughts on how you arrived at the fact that the metroplitan is an avishwaasi.Thanks
+2
jijo (January 16, 2012)
All those supporting bishop on the stage:
Aviswasikalumayittu namukkenthu karyam? namukkenthu kootaima? other dan dat we cannot avoid like things in daily life.
All those supporting bishop on the stage:
Aviswasikalumayittu namukkenthu karyam? namukkenthu kootaima? other dan dat we cannot avoid like things in daily life.
-2
a. s. mathew (January 16, 2012)
Contd;- Later on, I will write the list of a few great women used by God for evangelization-humanitarian work etc. I do remember attending a country Church in Alabamma, the Sunday school teacher can't continue his teaching due to the interruption created by an old woman. She talked double than the teacher did. If we have women or men without having "tongue brake broken", then we need to apply the same braking system applied in 2 Tim 2:12.
Contd;- Later on, I will write the list of a few great women used by God for evangelization-humanitarian work etc. I do remember attending a country Church in Alabamma, the Sunday school teacher can't continue his teaching due to the interruption created by an old woman. She talked double than the teacher did. If we have women or men without having "tongue brake broken", then we need to apply the same braking system applied in 2 Tim 2:12.
+2
a. s. mathew (January 16, 2012)
brother sam mathew: romans 14. 1-3 " receive one who is weak in faith, but not to dispute over doubtful things. for one believes he may eat all things, but who is weak eats only vegetables. let not him who eats despise him who does et, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for god has received him." the same author st. paul wrote to his close disciple " for every creature of god is good and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving. for it is sanctified by the word of god and prayer" 1 tim 4:4-5. we can easily interpret and hold on to a doctrine that those who are eating vegetables are weak and the meat eaters are stronger. i have watched some people pushing the converted hindus to eat beef to make them strong people based on the verses. contd:
brother sam mathew: romans 14. 1-3 " receive one who is weak in faith, but not to dispute over doubtful things. for one believes he may eat all things, but who is weak eats only vegetables. let not him who eats despise him who does et, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for god has received him." the same author st. paul wrote to his close disciple " for every creature of god is good and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving. for it is sanctified by the word of god and prayer" 1 tim 4:4-5. we can easily interpret and hold on to a doctrine that those who are eating vegetables are weak and the meat eaters are stronger. i have watched some people pushing the converted hindus to eat beef to make them strong people based on the verses. contd:
+2
a. s. mathew (January 15, 2012)
brother sam mathew: you are simply holding on to one verse from the
bible. there are many topics in the bible like food; the apostles
had different opinions, and we need not have to fight about. if god
has chosen a woman, that is his choice and we can't question god's
will and selection.
brother sam mathew: you are simply holding on to one verse from the
bible. there are many topics in the bible like food; the apostles
had different opinions, and we need not have to fight about. if god
has chosen a woman, that is his choice and we can't question god's
will and selection.
+2
sam mathew (January 14, 2012)
i feel the church activities in u s etc. are not strictly according to the scripture. when women are preaching/teaching word of god in public to the audience including men they are ignoring and acting against 1tim.2:12- "i do not permit a women to teach or to have authority over a man,but to be in silence. ......". the reason for 'do not permit' is also given there.
i feel the church activities in u s etc. are not strictly according to the scripture. when women are preaching/teaching word of god in public to the audience including men they are ignoring and acting against 1tim.2:12- "i do not permit a women to teach or to have authority over a man,but to be in silence. ......". the reason for 'do not permit' is also given there.
0
kunjachan (January 13, 2012)
Contd..(2) Loving God is not punishing any one to sent them to hell.But the fact is that as the world camp is the right of Satan, those who remain in that camp will remain in everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels(Matt.25:41). So our target is first, ensure our own position in the camp of the Lamb, then gain others, as much as possible, in obedience and love. What ever good works we have done is not counted for eternal life with Christ if we remain in the camp of Lord of the world during this life span. Changing the camp is the most important thing and hence the preaching of Gospel in the real sense with grace is also most important. when we pronounce Rom. 10:9 we are denying the Lordship of Satan and accepting Jesus Christ as our lord in the remaining life, at free will.This is the process of changing the camp and those who changed the camp wear Jesus in Baptism( Gal.3:27). This is very simple Gospel.
Contd..(2) Loving God is not punishing any one to sent them to hell.But the fact is that as the world camp is the right of Satan, those who remain in that camp will remain in everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels(Matt.25:41). So our target is first, ensure our own position in the camp of the Lamb, then gain others, as much as possible, in obedience and love. What ever good works we have done is not counted for eternal life with Christ if we remain in the camp of Lord of the world during this life span. Changing the camp is the most important thing and hence the preaching of Gospel in the real sense with grace is also most important. when we pronounce Rom. 10:9 we are denying the Lordship of Satan and accepting Jesus Christ as our lord in the remaining life, at free will.This is the process of changing the camp and those who changed the camp wear Jesus in Baptism( Gal.3:27). This is very simple Gospel.
+1
kunjachan (January 13, 2012)
contd..fixed before the foundation of the world (Ephe.1:4). God has many plans to make the people to hear the good news of Salvation. The crowd pullers preaching gospel without any doctrines is part of these plans. But He has appointed those as per Ephe. 4:11 to build & maintain the Church, the body of Jesus Christ, the camp of the Lamb.No one is compelled to enter this camp but God's will is all must hear the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ and take decision in free will.In the world camp everyone is free to lead a life of any model,argue anything to prove themselves wise etc. But the camp of the Lamb require strict discipline according to the Word of God.Arguments will gain nothing but obedience alone will allow one to remain in the right camp. Importance of ensuring a position in the Camp of the Lamb is reminded by verse 1Thes.4:4 "That each of you should know how to posses his own vessel in sanctification and honour." Contd...
contd..fixed before the foundation of the world (Ephe.1:4). God has many plans to make the people to hear the good news of Salvation. The crowd pullers preaching gospel without any doctrines is part of these plans. But He has appointed those as per Ephe. 4:11 to build & maintain the Church, the body of Jesus Christ, the camp of the Lamb.No one is compelled to enter this camp but God's will is all must hear the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ and take decision in free will.In the world camp everyone is free to lead a life of any model,argue anything to prove themselves wise etc. But the camp of the Lamb require strict discipline according to the Word of God.Arguments will gain nothing but obedience alone will allow one to remain in the right camp. Importance of ensuring a position in the Camp of the Lamb is reminded by verse 1Thes.4:4 "That each of you should know how to posses his own vessel in sanctification and honour." Contd...
+1
kunjachan (January 13, 2012)
The salvation is nothing but it is a process of changing the camp in which every one is born in to the world, with the individual conviction, decision in free will of each .1John.5:19 says "the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one". The gospel of salvation is the declaration of the loving Gods way for everyone, irrespective of cast, creed or any difference, to escape from the camp of the wicked one.God is not forcefully defeating the wicked one and take souls from his camp. In His justice & grace He has given Himself as the sacrifice for the sin of Adam and all who born under sin in that tradition, not because of their own will-full work for sin. The process for changing the camp is given in Rom.10:9 and Mark.16:16. in the world camp everything is allowed ; any religious thoughts,any God formation,positive or negative arguments in free will.But in the camp of the Lamb things are not like that.There is written specific rules for everything. These rules were fixed ..contd
The salvation is nothing but it is a process of changing the camp in which every one is born in to the world, with the individual conviction, decision in free will of each .1John.5:19 says "the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one". The gospel of salvation is the declaration of the loving Gods way for everyone, irrespective of cast, creed or any difference, to escape from the camp of the wicked one.God is not forcefully defeating the wicked one and take souls from his camp. In His justice & grace He has given Himself as the sacrifice for the sin of Adam and all who born under sin in that tradition, not because of their own will-full work for sin. The process for changing the camp is given in Rom.10:9 and Mark.16:16. in the world camp everything is allowed ; any religious thoughts,any God formation,positive or negative arguments in free will.But in the camp of the Lamb things are not like that.There is written specific rules for everything. These rules were fixed ..contd
+1
a. s. mathew (January 13, 2012)
brother thepraize: your encouraging comments makes me very humble on the one hand and gives me greater inspiration on the other hand. to all the readers, may i tell it openly. if the comments column is a mutural admiration society, then the whole picture would be very inactive and faded. so, the saints who are oppossed to brother thepraize views, james, joy chembakasseril, mine and such are greatly respected. let us have a very healthy debate touching different biblical topics so that the readers can have their views get deeply stronger or revised according to the word of god. i love and respect brothers kunjachan-thomas vemmeli-sam thomas etc.
brother thepraize: your encouraging comments makes me very humble on the one hand and gives me greater inspiration on the other hand. to all the readers, may i tell it openly. if the comments column is a mutural admiration society, then the whole picture would be very inactive and faded. so, the saints who are oppossed to brother thepraize views, james, joy chembakasseril, mine and such are greatly respected. let us have a very healthy debate touching different biblical topics so that the readers can have their views get deeply stronger or revised according to the word of god. i love and respect brothers kunjachan-thomas vemmeli-sam thomas etc.
+3
thepraize (January 13, 2012)
@asm you are spot on sir,and thats exactly what i would encourage you to be teaching and exposing the word of God in the right context,you have that gift,i need to admit.Hope our community is more receptive and warm towards the mission of evangelisation and not hostile in our presentation of christ.
please do keep presenting more insights on daily walk with god and how we can improve our christian lifestyle.if you can write every day thoughts that will encourage us to think,that would be great.
I would also suggest you to start a blogspot of your own where likeminded readers can share their thoughts on different practical aspects of walking with christ and its challenges,it will truly be of great help.Blessings.
@asm you are spot on sir,and thats exactly what i would encourage you to be teaching and exposing the word of God in the right context,you have that gift,i need to admit.Hope our community is more receptive and warm towards the mission of evangelisation and not hostile in our presentation of christ.
please do keep presenting more insights on daily walk with god and how we can improve our christian lifestyle.if you can write every day thoughts that will encourage us to think,that would be great.
I would also suggest you to start a blogspot of your own where likeminded readers can share their thoughts on different practical aspects of walking with christ and its challenges,it will truly be of great help.Blessings.
0
a. s. mathew (January 13, 2012)
How many sisters are in the ministry in Kerala or Indian Pentecostal denominations? They are greatly prohibited almost in the same tolerance level of the Brethren Church. But the women are greatly in the ministry in the U.S.A. There are many other things totally different from the same Pentecostal Churches in the U.S. and India. There are a lot of differences in between the Churches of Kerala and other States of India. So, your statement of "Pentecostal orthodoxy" is very confusing and needs further explanation.
How many sisters are in the ministry in Kerala or Indian Pentecostal denominations? They are greatly prohibited almost in the same tolerance level of the Brethren Church. But the women are greatly in the ministry in the U.S.A. There are many other things totally different from the same Pentecostal Churches in the U.S. and India. There are a lot of differences in between the Churches of Kerala and other States of India. So, your statement of "Pentecostal orthodoxy" is very confusing and needs further explanation.
+1
a. s. mathew (January 13, 2012)
BROTHER KUNJACHAN: Your statement that the Pentecostal faith is
Orthodox is very interesting. In any Orthodox faith, it is highly
conservative and universal. Take for example, the Orthodox Church
India-the Coptic Church in Egypt and Ethiopia and the Russian
Orthodox Church are the same in doctrines and worship format with
the same saints all over the world.
Take the Pentecostal Churches like the Church of God and Assemblies
of God with headquarters in the U.S. Pastor K.E. Abraham didn't
like the foreign supremacy and the milk of the white cow, so started
the I.P.C.
Take the Lord's supper in the U.S. and in India. In the U.S., it is an open communion for anybody or any denomination can participate.
There is no restriction that the participants must be baptized.
How that is performed in Kerala? contd:-
BROTHER KUNJACHAN: Your statement that the Pentecostal faith is
Orthodox is very interesting. In any Orthodox faith, it is highly
conservative and universal. Take for example, the Orthodox Church
India-the Coptic Church in Egypt and Ethiopia and the Russian
Orthodox Church are the same in doctrines and worship format with
the same saints all over the world.
Take the Pentecostal Churches like the Church of God and Assemblies
of God with headquarters in the U.S. Pastor K.E. Abraham didn't
like the foreign supremacy and the milk of the white cow, so started
the I.P.C.
Take the Lord's supper in the U.S. and in India. In the U.S., it is an open communion for anybody or any denomination can participate.
There is no restriction that the participants must be baptized.
How that is performed in Kerala? contd:-
+2
a. s. mathew (January 13, 2012)
Contd:-
We must have our first priority and passion to spread the good news
of the gospel, and it will change human hearts. When we give too
much priority to our own denominations, then we lost the total
focus in our Christian life. Dr. Billy Graham has mentioned three
ultra hot fundamentlists who were against Dr. Billy Graham's ministry.
They were Dr. John R. Rice, Dr. Carl McIntire and Dr. Bob Jones.
I have met two of them, read several books of Dr. Rice. There are
some people wrapped up in extreme fundamentalism and constantly fighting
with others and wasting their time. If we can't see the greatness
of Francis of Assisi-Father Damian-Mother Teresa-etc, our outlook
of life is too narrow minded. They may not belong our denominations
and doctrine, but very truly and genuinely with all self-denial, they
have exalted the name of the same JESUS.
Contd:-
We must have our first priority and passion to spread the good news
of the gospel, and it will change human hearts. When we give too
much priority to our own denominations, then we lost the total
focus in our Christian life. Dr. Billy Graham has mentioned three
ultra hot fundamentlists who were against Dr. Billy Graham's ministry.
They were Dr. John R. Rice, Dr. Carl McIntire and Dr. Bob Jones.
I have met two of them, read several books of Dr. Rice. There are
some people wrapped up in extreme fundamentalism and constantly fighting
with others and wasting their time. If we can't see the greatness
of Francis of Assisi-Father Damian-Mother Teresa-etc, our outlook
of life is too narrow minded. They may not belong our denominations
and doctrine, but very truly and genuinely with all self-denial, they
have exalted the name of the same JESUS.
0
a.s.mathew (January 13, 2012)
thepraize: thank so much for your warm compliments. the main division in christianity protesants/catholics, but when we take the protestants, that has two main sectors like the orthodox/evangelical sector. when we take the evangelical sector, they have hundreds of denominations like the bapist-methodist-prebyterians-pentecostals- reformed-etc. those people are studying in any of those church affliated seminaries, the students are brain-washed to a certain limit to be highly intolerable towards other denominations. even though jesus christ is the god of all these denominations, we are all fighting each other for minor issues, and take an attitude of untouchability like the brahmin-dalit relationship. this mindset is a progressive mentality. some of the theological seminaries won't allow their students to attend any other denominations other than their contd:-
thepraize: thank so much for your warm compliments. the main division in christianity protesants/catholics, but when we take the protestants, that has two main sectors like the orthodox/evangelical sector. when we take the evangelical sector, they have hundreds of denominations like the bapist-methodist-prebyterians-pentecostals- reformed-etc. those people are studying in any of those church affliated seminaries, the students are brain-washed to a certain limit to be highly intolerable towards other denominations. even though jesus christ is the god of all these denominations, we are all fighting each other for minor issues, and take an attitude of untouchability like the brahmin-dalit relationship. this mindset is a progressive mentality. some of the theological seminaries won't allow their students to attend any other denominations other than their contd:-
0
kunjachan (January 13, 2012)
Kindly understand that there is no orthodox Pentecost.But Pentecostal faith is orthodox for ever.No one entrusted to build church with as many people as possible. But all saved,has to proclaim the word of God not tampered and as it is written.when proclaiming,in truth,it is the work of the Holy Spirit to open the heart of those really deserving salvation.Man made plans and solutions to gain souls will be failure,it is proved.Nobody in the world has authorised to give tolerance in the scripture to gain souls of different culture.But people in any culture must be converted to the culture shown in the word of God,the culture of the bride church.If any body proclaim with tolerance,it is their risk to hear Matt.7:21-23.Jesus was very kind and love full to the needy to heal/feed.But when He declared the condition for LIFE He was very orthodox and did not give any tolerance even to His chosen 12(John.6:53-69)So those who really seek eternal life do not seek tolerance but be orthodox proudly.
Kindly understand that there is no orthodox Pentecost.But Pentecostal faith is orthodox for ever.No one entrusted to build church with as many people as possible. But all saved,has to proclaim the word of God not tampered and as it is written.when proclaiming,in truth,it is the work of the Holy Spirit to open the heart of those really deserving salvation.Man made plans and solutions to gain souls will be failure,it is proved.Nobody in the world has authorised to give tolerance in the scripture to gain souls of different culture.But people in any culture must be converted to the culture shown in the word of God,the culture of the bride church.If any body proclaim with tolerance,it is their risk to hear Matt.7:21-23.Jesus was very kind and love full to the needy to heal/feed.But when He declared the condition for LIFE He was very orthodox and did not give any tolerance even to His chosen 12(John.6:53-69)So those who really seek eternal life do not seek tolerance but be orthodox proudly.
0
thepraize (January 13, 2012)
fundamentalism,and your views are certainly thoughtful and enlightening which has a universal acceptance,i wonder how difficult it will be for people like kunjachens to accept the way westerners follow christ or for that matter people from remote tribes follow christ,malayalee pentecostal community is so regimented and follow undefined silent principles,which lack authenticity and thats where people like you step in and EDUCATE and show the way,i truly appreciate your efforts and hope and pray god enlightens the likes of kunjachens and spiritual fundamentalists through your writing to see beyond their predefined myopic views.Blessings PS: I know i expressed myself too strongly basically to let the readers know that there are ways to agree in disagreements and thats where we can reflect christian character.Apologies if anybody is offended.
fundamentalism,and your views are certainly thoughtful and enlightening which has a universal acceptance,i wonder how difficult it will be for people like kunjachens to accept the way westerners follow christ or for that matter people from remote tribes follow christ,malayalee pentecostal community is so regimented and follow undefined silent principles,which lack authenticity and thats where people like you step in and EDUCATE and show the way,i truly appreciate your efforts and hope and pray god enlightens the likes of kunjachens and spiritual fundamentalists through your writing to see beyond their predefined myopic views.Blessings PS: I know i expressed myself too strongly basically to let the readers know that there are ways to agree in disagreements and thats where we can reflect christian character.Apologies if anybody is offended.
+2
thepraize (January 13, 2012)
@kunjachan, you comment strongly from a orthodox Pentecostal view,let me ask you have you ever been able to win a soul with your orthodoxy,take a look at the pentecostal churches,they are still the same with 10 families and 10 pastors,(everybody is a pastor) i can challenge you without love you can never win anybody,learn to appreciate others,staying firm in your views rather than condemning people around,LEARN to accept them. God's love has just one shade and i am sorry i dont know if God's love has different shades and meanings to different people,dont be anxious in your comments,sit back relax and let the love of God be seen in your comments,actions and behavior.God Bless
@asm we need people of your stature to impress upon the generation present and future the mysteries of the gospel in the true context,hardcore views are not relevant and baseless,unfortunately everybody in the so called community is a thelogian with whatever litle knowledge he/or she has leading to contd...
@kunjachan, you comment strongly from a orthodox Pentecostal view,let me ask you have you ever been able to win a soul with your orthodoxy,take a look at the pentecostal churches,they are still the same with 10 families and 10 pastors,(everybody is a pastor) i can challenge you without love you can never win anybody,learn to appreciate others,staying firm in your views rather than condemning people around,LEARN to accept them. God's love has just one shade and i am sorry i dont know if God's love has different shades and meanings to different people,dont be anxious in your comments,sit back relax and let the love of God be seen in your comments,actions and behavior.God Bless
@asm we need people of your stature to impress upon the generation present and future the mysteries of the gospel in the true context,hardcore views are not relevant and baseless,unfortunately everybody in the so called community is a thelogian with whatever litle knowledge he/or she has leading to contd...
+1
james (January 13, 2012)
@Kunjachan
Some pentacostals and their publications criticized Mar Chrisostom for his speech at amrithanandamayi madham. If they consider him as an unbeliever, then what is the relevance of that criticism?. The same people now criticizing him for his speech at kumbanad. This is Baseless criticism!!!
One says that it is wrong to gives him a seat at stage, which ironically means he is 100% sure that all other persons in that dais are 100% believers/saints or saved (pls. see some editions of The Defender)
His name really revels his intolerance – “KUNJ-achanâ€
@Kunjachan
Some pentacostals and their publications criticized Mar Chrisostom for his speech at amrithanandamayi madham. If they consider him as an unbeliever, then what is the relevance of that criticism?. The same people now criticizing him for his speech at kumbanad. This is Baseless criticism!!!
One says that it is wrong to gives him a seat at stage, which ironically means he is 100% sure that all other persons in that dais are 100% believers/saints or saved (pls. see some editions of The Defender)
His name really revels his intolerance – “KUNJ-achanâ€
+1
a, s. mathew (January 13, 2012)
brother kunjachan: i do agree with you that god loves a sinner but hate sin. a few years back, mr. p.j. joseph, one of the kerala congress leaders of kerala paid a visit to the kerala pentecostal annual gathering of the u.s. in july, did sing a song at the pulpit and complimented the pentecostal churches of kerala for donating money for the home construction of the poor people. there is some confusion here. was mr. anto antony m.p. was invited to speak at the convention, or simply as a special guest for the function? in the maramon convention, the first sunday, many non-marthoma m.l.as and even hindu m.l.as will show up. for the largest pentecostal gathering in kerala, this might be the first time that the politician and the bishop were in the pulpit. if my memory is correct, mr. anto antony and his family have personal relationship with jesus due to some healing miracles took place in their personal life.
brother kunjachan: i do agree with you that god loves a sinner but hate sin. a few years back, mr. p.j. joseph, one of the kerala congress leaders of kerala paid a visit to the kerala pentecostal annual gathering of the u.s. in july, did sing a song at the pulpit and complimented the pentecostal churches of kerala for donating money for the home construction of the poor people. there is some confusion here. was mr. anto antony m.p. was invited to speak at the convention, or simply as a special guest for the function? in the maramon convention, the first sunday, many non-marthoma m.l.as and even hindu m.l.as will show up. for the largest pentecostal gathering in kerala, this might be the first time that the politician and the bishop were in the pulpit. if my memory is correct, mr. anto antony and his family have personal relationship with jesus due to some healing miracles took place in their personal life.
0
kunjachan (January 12, 2012)
Some new theologians are unable to distinguish between the love of the world and the love of Christ. The love of Christ(Gods love) is as explained in John.3:16.,the love on every mankind to save them from the 'Lord of the world'. God deny the sin but love the sinner. This love is in His patience to save the sinner through Christ and not to be in friendship and peace with him in whatever ways he goes in his life in the world. Any politicians or any one can be invited to attend a gospel meeting or worship service. But if he/she is an unbeliever their seat cannot be in the stage or pulpit . If an unbeliever is given a chance in the stage to speak, we can hear his expression that he believes in God the almighty,we people are one in God,we must love each other as God is love.,Krishna,Mohammed nabi,Jesus Christ etc. are the different manifestations of same God etc. St.Paul was a fundamentalist as God is a fundamentalist in His Word.So be wise in understanding the love of God.
Some new theologians are unable to distinguish between the love of the world and the love of Christ. The love of Christ(Gods love) is as explained in John.3:16.,the love on every mankind to save them from the 'Lord of the world'. God deny the sin but love the sinner. This love is in His patience to save the sinner through Christ and not to be in friendship and peace with him in whatever ways he goes in his life in the world. Any politicians or any one can be invited to attend a gospel meeting or worship service. But if he/she is an unbeliever their seat cannot be in the stage or pulpit . If an unbeliever is given a chance in the stage to speak, we can hear his expression that he believes in God the almighty,we people are one in God,we must love each other as God is love.,Krishna,Mohammed nabi,Jesus Christ etc. are the different manifestations of same God etc. St.Paul was a fundamentalist as God is a fundamentalist in His Word.So be wise in understanding the love of God.
0
a. s. mathew (January 12, 2012)
the christian community of mangalore donated food for a hindu religious festival, and many hindus have commented about the christian attitude of displaying charity, even though the 4% christian communisty was persecuted since 2008 after the bjp came into power. we can win the world for christ only through the miracle working power of godly love. the most confusing sight in my life is to watch the underlying dislike and hatred in between those people who are believers and followers of jesus christ. as the marthoma bishop came to attend a pentecostal convention for the first time, hopefully more bishops will be visiting in the coming days, the pentecostal believers will have attend the marthoma conventions. even though the traditions and format may differ, but jesus is the main object in both places.
the christian community of mangalore donated food for a hindu religious festival, and many hindus have commented about the christian attitude of displaying charity, even though the 4% christian communisty was persecuted since 2008 after the bjp came into power. we can win the world for christ only through the miracle working power of godly love. the most confusing sight in my life is to watch the underlying dislike and hatred in between those people who are believers and followers of jesus christ. as the marthoma bishop came to attend a pentecostal convention for the first time, hopefully more bishops will be visiting in the coming days, the pentecostal believers will have attend the marthoma conventions. even though the traditions and format may differ, but jesus is the main object in both places.
+1
a. s. mathew (January 12, 2012)
thepraize: my brother, you are "mr. inspiration in my life" and your
motivating comments about my comments have inspired me to write more comments. so glad to see your comments again.
i pray very earnestly that god may use the " believers journal" as
a revolutionary medium to make a second spiritual reformation in the
church world( atleast in kerala churches). let this be an open ground for believers of all
denominations to express their views, without personally attacking
each other which will degrade the real purpose. we can't blame
believers of any denomination for their theological and outlook about
the deep rooted traditions. every denomination has their share of
traditions, but it is the time to make a fair evaluation of the gravity
of the traditions and expose the misguided traditions by shedding
the light of the word of the lord.
thepraize: my brother, you are "mr. inspiration in my life" and your
motivating comments about my comments have inspired me to write more comments. so glad to see your comments again.
i pray very earnestly that god may use the " believers journal" as
a revolutionary medium to make a second spiritual reformation in the
church world( atleast in kerala churches). let this be an open ground for believers of all
denominations to express their views, without personally attacking
each other which will degrade the real purpose. we can't blame
believers of any denomination for their theological and outlook about
the deep rooted traditions. every denomination has their share of
traditions, but it is the time to make a fair evaluation of the gravity
of the traditions and expose the misguided traditions by shedding
the light of the word of the lord.
+1
thepraize (January 12, 2012)
@asm,my earlier post was not meant to you,but a reflection of my thoughts after reading the comments on this space,
Joy Chembakaseril should be here for more insights,i am not too sure about his whereabouts,Blessings
@asm,my earlier post was not meant to you,but a reflection of my thoughts after reading the comments on this space,
Joy Chembakaseril should be here for more insights,i am not too sure about his whereabouts,Blessings
0
thepraize (January 12, 2012)
@a. s. mathew ,good to read your thoughts and a very happy new year to you and to your near and dear ones.Quiet frankly the comments posted by gentlemen who claim to be children of God are alarming & it hurt my spirit.I am short of words when i observe non tolerance and the lack of divine love which Christ displayed to the whole world openly and condemn without reason and quote the word of God with no relevance to the context,which leads me to think,what spirit are we been guided. I have huge respects for the Marthoma Metropolitan for his age,knowledge and the social acceptance he has gained across communities and we may have difference in the interpretation of the Bible and practises,we cannot just blatantly say what he profess is not true,we need to learn to respect his conviction,instead of generating animosity among readers we need to develop an atmosphere of warmth and above all wish our contributers' opinion reflect Christian values and Christ like behavior.Blessings
@a. s. mathew ,good to read your thoughts and a very happy new year to you and to your near and dear ones.Quiet frankly the comments posted by gentlemen who claim to be children of God are alarming & it hurt my spirit.I am short of words when i observe non tolerance and the lack of divine love which Christ displayed to the whole world openly and condemn without reason and quote the word of God with no relevance to the context,which leads me to think,what spirit are we been guided. I have huge respects for the Marthoma Metropolitan for his age,knowledge and the social acceptance he has gained across communities and we may have difference in the interpretation of the Bible and practises,we cannot just blatantly say what he profess is not true,we need to learn to respect his conviction,instead of generating animosity among readers we need to develop an atmosphere of warmth and above all wish our contributers' opinion reflect Christian values and Christ like behavior.Blessings
0
a. s. mathew (January 12, 2012)
BROTHER JAMES. You said it correctly and preciously. No more "EVARKUM" but
only for the Pentecostal saints.
BROTHER JAMES. You said it correctly and preciously. No more "EVARKUM" but
only for the Pentecostal saints.
+1
a. s. mathew (January 12, 2012)
I am glad to see that the comments column is getting active again.
Brother Thomas Vemmeli, I don't have the details about the invitation
procedure of the politicians to attend the convention. Yes, politicians attend conventions with political calculations and the
the inviters may have another vested interest. Only God knows the
real game plan behind this.
Thepraise: So glad that you are writing again. Where is
brother Joy Chembakasseril?
I am glad to see that the comments column is getting active again.
Brother Thomas Vemmeli, I don't have the details about the invitation
procedure of the politicians to attend the convention. Yes, politicians attend conventions with political calculations and the
the inviters may have another vested interest. Only God knows the
real game plan behind this.
Thepraise: So glad that you are writing again. Where is
brother Joy Chembakasseril?
+1
james (January 12, 2012)
@thomas vemmeli & ...
All pentacostal convension posters printed like "EVARKUM SWAGATHAM". In future pls. print as 'only pentecostals are welcome' so that you can avoid such circumstances. i thinkm the man with a gifted tounge once again teaches us something new....???
@thomas vemmeli & ...
All pentacostal convension posters printed like "EVARKUM SWAGATHAM". In future pls. print as 'only pentecostals are welcome' so that you can avoid such circumstances. i thinkm the man with a gifted tounge once again teaches us something new....???
+1
thomas vemmelil (January 11, 2012)
Bro.A.S.Mathew:- What happened when the church in Jerusalem was persecuted in the first century? Did the saints unite together to fight against persecution or God made them to scatter away from persecution?You are looking for a greater umbrella for the protection against persecution. Then why we should be in Pentecostalism which is only a minority among the minorities in India. Catholicism will be a better refuge for the Pentecostals against persecution. What a shame it is to hear a Bishop quoting from Bhagavat Gita !!! What about his Bible??
Bro.A.S.Mathew:- What happened when the church in Jerusalem was persecuted in the first century? Did the saints unite together to fight against persecution or God made them to scatter away from persecution?You are looking for a greater umbrella for the protection against persecution. Then why we should be in Pentecostalism which is only a minority among the minorities in India. Catholicism will be a better refuge for the Pentecostals against persecution. What a shame it is to hear a Bishop quoting from Bhagavat Gita !!! What about his Bible??
+22
thomas vemmelil (January 11, 2012)
Bro. A.S Mathew:- There is no problem for politicians attending a spiritual meeting. Here the situation is entirely different that a politician has been invited as a guest and seated centrally among the " Reverends" in the stage. You must be righteous in judging the motivation behind it. You say that politicians are human beings, surely he is a human being not an animal but you should agree that he is an unbeliever too. Ox is an animal while donkey also is an animal. But one is clean and the other one is unclean and that makes the difference. I love to be a fundamentalist as much as apostle Paul is. You may read 1 Corinthians 6: 14-15 and decide whether apostle Paul was a fundamentalist or not? " Do not become unequally yoked with unbelievers" What does this mean to you? To you this may be so trivial to say that apostle Paul is a fundamentalist!! This is nothing but the fallen and the degraded Laodicean church!!!
Bro. A.S Mathew:- There is no problem for politicians attending a spiritual meeting. Here the situation is entirely different that a politician has been invited as a guest and seated centrally among the " Reverends" in the stage. You must be righteous in judging the motivation behind it. You say that politicians are human beings, surely he is a human being not an animal but you should agree that he is an unbeliever too. Ox is an animal while donkey also is an animal. But one is clean and the other one is unclean and that makes the difference. I love to be a fundamentalist as much as apostle Paul is. You may read 1 Corinthians 6: 14-15 and decide whether apostle Paul was a fundamentalist or not? " Do not become unequally yoked with unbelievers" What does this mean to you? To you this may be so trivial to say that apostle Paul is a fundamentalist!! This is nothing but the fallen and the degraded Laodicean church!!!
+24
a. s. mathew (January 11, 2012)
Contd:-
This is the first time that an Episcopal Bishop came to attend the
biggest Pentecostal convention of Kerala or India. This a new
step. As believers in Christ, we are instructed to be separated
from sin, not from people of another denominations or religions
because we are living in the world composed of all kinds of people.
Contd:-
This is the first time that an Episcopal Bishop came to attend the
biggest Pentecostal convention of Kerala or India. This a new
step. As believers in Christ, we are instructed to be separated
from sin, not from people of another denominations or religions
because we are living in the world composed of all kinds of people.
-1
a. s. mathew (January 11, 2012)
The religious persecution in India has done a good job in uniting
people of all the denominations under one flag. Before that, the
walls of denominationlism was taller and thicker than the Berlin
wall. Even before this historic change of events, Mar Christosam
Thriumeni was a totally different personality with an open hand to
shake with anybody, and perhaps he is the only Bishop among the
Episcopal Churches with that special attitude of openness. The first
time I saw him, 57 years back, when he came to our Church around the
time when he became the Bishop. I have heard him quoting from
Bhagatvat Gita in the Maramon convention more than 43 years back and
he warned the audience not to use the word " Gentiles" towards the
Hindus. He is such a sought after speaker in all the inter-religous
functions and he is known as a man of "sweet tongues" with a great
sense of humour.
The religious persecution in India has done a good job in uniting
people of all the denominations under one flag. Before that, the
walls of denominationlism was taller and thicker than the Berlin
wall. Even before this historic change of events, Mar Christosam
Thriumeni was a totally different personality with an open hand to
shake with anybody, and perhaps he is the only Bishop among the
Episcopal Churches with that special attitude of openness. The first
time I saw him, 57 years back, when he came to our Church around the
time when he became the Bishop. I have heard him quoting from
Bhagatvat Gita in the Maramon convention more than 43 years back and
he warned the audience not to use the word " Gentiles" towards the
Hindus. He is such a sought after speaker in all the inter-religous
functions and he is known as a man of "sweet tongues" with a great
sense of humour.
-8
thepraize (January 11, 2012)
@thomas vemmeli & sam thomas,friends please show some tolerance to your community around,god created everybody and diversity is in existence from time immemorial.Fundamental preaching is good on public domain like this,kindly note your freedom of expression should not mean condemning people of sound social stature,if IPC did indeed invite the thirumeni,i would be happy that in doing so we are expressing our inclusivity to the communities around. Bible does not say Christ died for pentecostals nor did it say He is coming for pentecostals.Apart from all these preaching try to be practical at times in life, and see the other side of Gods creation and learn to accept and appreciate it with grace rather than condemning and proving your one upmanship.Blessings
@thomas vemmeli & sam thomas,friends please show some tolerance to your community around,god created everybody and diversity is in existence from time immemorial.Fundamental preaching is good on public domain like this,kindly note your freedom of expression should not mean condemning people of sound social stature,if IPC did indeed invite the thirumeni,i would be happy that in doing so we are expressing our inclusivity to the communities around. Bible does not say Christ died for pentecostals nor did it say He is coming for pentecostals.Apart from all these preaching try to be practical at times in life, and see the other side of Gods creation and learn to accept and appreciate it with grace rather than condemning and proving your one upmanship.Blessings
-3
sam thomas (January 10, 2012)
the thirumeni, going to sabarimala, amruthanandamayi etc., has come to ipc to full fill the word of god about the end time."therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation',spoken of by daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place"(who ever reads, let him understand)(matt.24:15) this is exactly what happened at kumbanad. power vision channel & ipc under pr.(?) k.c. john will vanish the pentecostal faith based on separation from the world especially from the malayalee. dheivadhasanmarennu avakasappedunnavarku keezhppettirunnal swargathil pokukayilla, dheivavachanam anusarichaale rakshayullu.dheiva vachanam kruthiamaayi anussarikkunnavare mathrame dheivadaasan ennu vilikkavoo.anganeyullavarkku keezhpedumpole keezhppedunnathu dheivathinayirikkum. athaanu raksha nalkunnathu.be very sad & pray full hearted for the simple souls in ipc who are bound to slavery under the crooked pentecost politicians.
the thirumeni, going to sabarimala, amruthanandamayi etc., has come to ipc to full fill the word of god about the end time."therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation',spoken of by daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place"(who ever reads, let him understand)(matt.24:15) this is exactly what happened at kumbanad. power vision channel & ipc under pr.(?) k.c. john will vanish the pentecostal faith based on separation from the world especially from the malayalee. dheivadhasanmarennu avakasappedunnavarku keezhppettirunnal swargathil pokukayilla, dheivavachanam anusarichaale rakshayullu.dheiva vachanam kruthiamaayi anussarikkunnavare mathrame dheivadaasan ennu vilikkavoo.anganeyullavarkku keezhpedumpole keezhppedunnathu dheivathinayirikkum. athaanu raksha nalkunnathu.be very sad & pray full hearted for the simple souls in ipc who are bound to slavery under the crooked pentecost politicians.
+12
a. s. mathew (January 10, 2012)
BROTHER THOMAS VEMMELI: Your dislike for the politicians attending a Christian meeting is too strong fundamentalism. What you read in Deut 22: 11, wearing a mix of woolen and linen is prohibited. Yoking of a
donkey and ox will be such a great mess to do the work. But, here human beings are sitting together in the same stage, and it is a matter of simple courtesy to honor our guest of any religion when they are attending our worship or convention.
BROTHER THOMAS VEMMELI: Your dislike for the politicians attending a Christian meeting is too strong fundamentalism. What you read in Deut 22: 11, wearing a mix of woolen and linen is prohibited. Yoking of a
donkey and ox will be such a great mess to do the work. But, here human beings are sitting together in the same stage, and it is a matter of simple courtesy to honor our guest of any religion when they are attending our worship or convention.
-5
thomas vemmelil (January 10, 2012)
mar chrisostam "thirumeni" gave message on the 10th evening at the ipc kumbanad convention! ( defender news) this is what is the "fornication" mentioned in revelation 14. "for all the nations have drunk of the wine of the fury of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the power of her luxury." "the nations have drunk of the wine...and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her..."
fallen, fallen is babylon the great!!
"awake,awake! put on your strength o zion; put on your beautiful garments, o jerusalem the holy city! for the uncircumcised and the unclean shall no longer come to you."isaiah 52:1
mar chrisostam "thirumeni" gave message on the 10th evening at the ipc kumbanad convention! ( defender news) this is what is the "fornication" mentioned in revelation 14. "for all the nations have drunk of the wine of the fury of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the power of her luxury." "the nations have drunk of the wine...and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her..."
fallen, fallen is babylon the great!!
"awake,awake! put on your strength o zion; put on your beautiful garments, o jerusalem the holy city! for the uncircumcised and the unclean shall no longer come to you."isaiah 52:1
+25
thomas vemmeli (January 9, 2012)
.........According to the Old Testament, cattle were of two categories: the clean and the unclean. Those that were clean chewed the cud and had cloven hooves. Sheep and oxen were clean animals, but horses, mules, and pigs were not clean. Thus, in Deuteronomy we see that the law commanded the children of Israel not to yoke together a clean animal with an unclean one, not to put the clean and the unclean under the same yoke. A clean animal, such as an ox, could be offered to God, but an unclean animal could not be offered to Him. Therefore, the clean and the unclean were unequal. This is what happened with the degraded church in the 4th century. The Politicians came into church to become the present day Catholicism. The history is being repeated in IPC....it is shame indeed !!!!!!!
.........According to the Old Testament, cattle were of two categories: the clean and the unclean. Those that were clean chewed the cud and had cloven hooves. Sheep and oxen were clean animals, but horses, mules, and pigs were not clean. Thus, in Deuteronomy we see that the law commanded the children of Israel not to yoke together a clean animal with an unclean one, not to put the clean and the unclean under the same yoke. A clean animal, such as an ox, could be offered to God, but an unclean animal could not be offered to Him. Therefore, the clean and the unclean were unequal. This is what happened with the degraded church in the 4th century. The Politicians came into church to become the present day Catholicism. The history is being repeated in IPC....it is shame indeed !!!!!!!
+20
thomas vemmeli (January 9, 2012)
How come a politician is centrally seated among the upper class "saints" on the stage?? Does it not contradict the verse in 1 Corinthians 6:14&15. Can any one explain why a politician be honored at a Pentecostal stage show? Bible forbids the yoking together of two dissimilar animals. Deut.22:10. Believers and unbelievers are diverse peoples. Because of their divine nature and holy standing, believers should not be yoked together with the unbelievers. Look at the five illustrations given in 2 Corinthians 6: 14-15 by apostle Paul. Is this the Church or the Babylon??
How come a politician is centrally seated among the upper class "saints" on the stage?? Does it not contradict the verse in 1 Corinthians 6:14&15. Can any one explain why a politician be honored at a Pentecostal stage show? Bible forbids the yoking together of two dissimilar animals. Deut.22:10. Believers and unbelievers are diverse peoples. Because of their divine nature and holy standing, believers should not be yoked together with the unbelievers. Look at the five illustrations given in 2 Corinthians 6: 14-15 by apostle Paul. Is this the Church or the Babylon??
+21
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