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Category: Editorial Beat
Publish Date: Aug 25, 2013
Views: 23803
Victory of Unity.
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Displaying 51 Comments
The views and opinions expressed in the comment section are strictly those of the comment authors alone and do not necessarily reflect and represent the views and opinions of Believer's Journal.
a. s. mathew (September 10, 2013)
believer london: thank you hundred times for your highly eye opening clarification of the debate in between brother james mathew and myself. may i humbly request you to write more in the coming days. it is my earnest prayer that the believers around the world may actively participate in talking about different biblical subjects with love and mutual understanding. even though we may differ, i have the greatest respect for brother james mathew for speaking his view point openly. if we all work together through the love of christ, we can make the 'believers journal" as a totally different christian publication with the readership of christian believers from all denominations. god bless you "believer london".
believer london: thank you hundred times for your highly eye opening clarification of the debate in between brother james mathew and myself. may i humbly request you to write more in the coming days. it is my earnest prayer that the believers around the world may actively participate in talking about different biblical subjects with love and mutual understanding. even though we may differ, i have the greatest respect for brother james mathew for speaking his view point openly. if we all work together through the love of christ, we can make the 'believers journal" as a totally different christian publication with the readership of christian believers from all denominations. god bless you "believer london".
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believer london (September 10, 2013)
so i feel as mathew and james mathew, both have a doctrinaly different viewpiont. yet both has its advantages. the liberal viewpoint of asm helps outreach to many, which is an asset for evangelising the lost just like paul did. the strict viewpoints of james mathew helps in teaching and edifying the believers (like appollos did) which is essential for ensuring that they lead a life worthy of attaining their eternal life. both these viewpoints or burdens are god given...so that one can sow the seed ,,,and the other can water.....but it is god that makes the plant grow and it is he that matters...... no more arguments needed on who is the best ...or which ones is the most correct...."for each one of us does the work which the lord gave him to do" and " god will reward each one according to the work each one has done"
so i feel as mathew and james mathew, both have a doctrinaly different viewpiont. yet both has its advantages. the liberal viewpoint of asm helps outreach to many, which is an asset for evangelising the lost just like paul did. the strict viewpoints of james mathew helps in teaching and edifying the believers (like appollos did) which is essential for ensuring that they lead a life worthy of attaining their eternal life. both these viewpoints or burdens are god given...so that one can sow the seed ,,,and the other can water.....but it is god that makes the plant grow and it is he that matters...... no more arguments needed on who is the best ...or which ones is the most correct...."for each one of us does the work which the lord gave him to do" and " god will reward each one according to the work each one has done"
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believer london (September 10, 2013)
After all, who is Appollos? And who is Paul? We are simply Gods servants by who you were lead to believe. Each one of us does the work which the Lord gave him to do. I sowed the seed, Appollos watered the plant, but it was God who made the plant grow. The one who sows and the one who waters does not matter. It is God who matters, because he makes the plant grow. There is no difference between the one who sows and the one who waters. God will reward each one according to the work each has done. For we are partners working together for Go, and you are God's field. 1 Corinthians 3: 5-9
After all, who is Appollos? And who is Paul? We are simply Gods servants by who you were lead to believe. Each one of us does the work which the Lord gave him to do. I sowed the seed, Appollos watered the plant, but it was God who made the plant grow. The one who sows and the one who waters does not matter. It is God who matters, because he makes the plant grow. There is no difference between the one who sows and the one who waters. God will reward each one according to the work each has done. For we are partners working together for Go, and you are God's field. 1 Corinthians 3: 5-9
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believer london (September 10, 2013)
so in short both a s mathew and james mathew seems correct....but the only thing is they both represents two ends of the salvation plan....a s mathew represents introduction of this plan to as many as we can......which i believe is what we all can do provided we all have a willing heart to share the gospel......true we also needs the lords grace to do the lords work.....thats the introductory phase or the marketing phase where we create awareness about jesus to as many as we can.,,,,,,
james mathew represents the latter part of the salvation plan....where we look at actual attainment of eternal life....which is far more tough phase ...since it involves overcoming the desires of the flesh and leading a spirit led life.....bearing fruits of the holy spirit....this phase is definitely a must after the introductory phase....
both represents two ends of the plan.....but i really doubt if we can bear more fruits if we are too doctrine oriented......it is the love of
so in short both a s mathew and james mathew seems correct....but the only thing is they both represents two ends of the salvation plan....a s mathew represents introduction of this plan to as many as we can......which i believe is what we all can do provided we all have a willing heart to share the gospel......true we also needs the lords grace to do the lords work.....thats the introductory phase or the marketing phase where we create awareness about jesus to as many as we can.,,,,,,
james mathew represents the latter part of the salvation plan....where we look at actual attainment of eternal life....which is far more tough phase ...since it involves overcoming the desires of the flesh and leading a spirit led life.....bearing fruits of the holy spirit....this phase is definitely a must after the introductory phase....
both represents two ends of the plan.....but i really doubt if we can bear more fruits if we are too doctrine oriented......it is the love of
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james mathew (September 9, 2013)
Contd...3- veendedukkappettavarude koottamaaya sabhaye maattiyaseshom avseshikkunna sakalarum pisachinum avante doothanmaarkkumaayi orukkappettirikkunna narakathilekku swaabhaavikamaayi maattappeduka mathrame cheyyunnullu ennathum marannukooda.thaan christhyaani akunnu ennu karuthunaavaril aarkkum Mathayi, 7:22 parayuvaanum 7:23 kelkkuvaanum idayaakathirikkatte ennu prarthikkam. deivom anunghrahikkatte.
Contd...3- veendedukkappettavarude koottamaaya sabhaye maattiyaseshom avseshikkunna sakalarum pisachinum avante doothanmaarkkumaayi orukkappettirikkunna narakathilekku swaabhaavikamaayi maattappeduka mathrame cheyyunnullu ennathum marannukooda.thaan christhyaani akunnu ennu karuthunaavaril aarkkum Mathayi, 7:22 parayuvaanum 7:23 kelkkuvaanum idayaakathirikkatte ennu prarthikkam. deivom anunghrahikkatte.
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james mathew (September 9, 2013)
Contd....2- jadathinte swabhaavangale (Gal. 5:19) manapporvamaayi marippichu, aathmaavinte phalamullavaraayi orungiyirunnillenkil oruvanum manavaatti sbhayodukoodi edukkappedukayilla. edukkappetillenkil yesuvine arinjathu kondu enthu prayojanam? athukondu naam lakshyabodham ullavarum mattullavare nirandharam athu anusmarippikkunnavarum aayirikkuka. subhodhamullidatholam mathrame avasaram ullu. pinne onnum nadakkukayillallo!! penthekkosthu sanghatanakale kanditto avayude nethakkanmaare kanditto deivasabhaye vilayiruthuvaan aarkkum idayaakathirikkatte.Markose, 16:16 le yesu paranjirikkunnathine ilachu padippichaal deivasbayilum deivamakkal enna padhaviyilum aakuvaan kazhiyukayilla.deivom aareyum sikshikkunnilla. Contd.....
Contd....2- jadathinte swabhaavangale (Gal. 5:19) manapporvamaayi marippichu, aathmaavinte phalamullavaraayi orungiyirunnillenkil oruvanum manavaatti sbhayodukoodi edukkappedukayilla. edukkappetillenkil yesuvine arinjathu kondu enthu prayojanam? athukondu naam lakshyabodham ullavarum mattullavare nirandharam athu anusmarippikkunnavarum aayirikkuka. subhodhamullidatholam mathrame avasaram ullu. pinne onnum nadakkukayillallo!! penthekkosthu sanghatanakale kanditto avayude nethakkanmaare kanditto deivasabhaye vilayiruthuvaan aarkkum idayaakathirikkatte.Markose, 16:16 le yesu paranjirikkunnathine ilachu padippichaal deivasbayilum deivamakkal enna padhaviyilum aakuvaan kazhiyukayilla.deivom aareyum sikshikkunnilla. Contd.....
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james mathew (September 9, 2013)
Br. a.s.m., I conclude this chapter with the following- ee bhoomiyil janikkunna ella manushiarum deiva makkal aakunnilla. deivamakkal aakuvaano lokamakkalaayi avasaanikkuvaano paripoorna swathanthryam nalkappettirikkunnu.ennaal ellavarum deivamakkal aakanamennu deivom aaghrahikkunnu( 1 Thimo. 2:4). Puthranil viswasichu sweekarikkunna aarkkum deivamakkalaakuvaan adhikaaramundu (john,1:12). athinulla praayogika nirdhesamaanu Acts,2:38 nalkunnathu. cni bishop aayaalum maarpaappa aayalum ee vazhiyil koodi allathe deiva sabhayil pravesikkuvaan kazhiyukayilla. penthekkosthukaar ennu njaan parayunnathu penthekkosthu naalil sthaapikkappetta sabhayude upadesangal kruthyamaayi anusarikkunnavare maathramaanu. sabhayil pravesichavarkkum pinneyum pinmaarippokuvaan sadhyathakalum swaathanthryavumundu. athukondaanu nilkkunnu ennu karuthunnavan veezhathirikkuvaan nokkikkollatte ennu paranjirikkunnathu. Contd...
Br. a.s.m., I conclude this chapter with the following- ee bhoomiyil janikkunna ella manushiarum deiva makkal aakunnilla. deivamakkal aakuvaano lokamakkalaayi avasaanikkuvaano paripoorna swathanthryam nalkappettirikkunnu.ennaal ellavarum deivamakkal aakanamennu deivom aaghrahikkunnu( 1 Thimo. 2:4). Puthranil viswasichu sweekarikkunna aarkkum deivamakkalaakuvaan adhikaaramundu (john,1:12). athinulla praayogika nirdhesamaanu Acts,2:38 nalkunnathu. cni bishop aayaalum maarpaappa aayalum ee vazhiyil koodi allathe deiva sabhayil pravesikkuvaan kazhiyukayilla. penthekkosthukaar ennu njaan parayunnathu penthekkosthu naalil sthaapikkappetta sabhayude upadesangal kruthyamaayi anusarikkunnavare maathramaanu. sabhayil pravesichavarkkum pinneyum pinmaarippokuvaan sadhyathakalum swaathanthryavumundu. athukondaanu nilkkunnu ennu karuthunnavan veezhathirikkuvaan nokkikkollatte ennu paranjirikkunnathu. Contd...
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a. s. mathew (September 9, 2013)
brother james mathew: thank you. if there is a seed planted in the heart of a person, some day somebody will put water on that and the seed will turn as a plant. then god will guide that person to be in a place to grow spiritually. one cni bishop was a muslim and he found a tract on the roadside, took it and washed to read that. he began to question his own muslim faith, later on became the bishop of the cni. through his ministry, many people came to follow christ. even a whole lot of pentecostal believers came from non-christian background, attended catholic schools and colleges, and the crucifix with a verse from the bible planted the seeds in them. we are all called in for ministries with different gifts, and we all must work together to fulfill our spiritual calling in a united front. god bless you brother.
brother james mathew: thank you. if there is a seed planted in the heart of a person, some day somebody will put water on that and the seed will turn as a plant. then god will guide that person to be in a place to grow spiritually. one cni bishop was a muslim and he found a tract on the roadside, took it and washed to read that. he began to question his own muslim faith, later on became the bishop of the cni. through his ministry, many people came to follow christ. even a whole lot of pentecostal believers came from non-christian background, attended catholic schools and colleges, and the crucifix with a verse from the bible planted the seeds in them. we are all called in for ministries with different gifts, and we all must work together to fulfill our spiritual calling in a united front. god bless you brother.
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james mathew (September 9, 2013)
Contd....2-When we are plainly speaking about Jesus, Salvation, miracles, unity etc., the important fact is ignored and Who has worn the label of believer is also misguided and motivated to lead a liberal life with the world. So my request is, let us be dedicated to be the true evangelists sowing, preparing and reaping to gather the wheat in the barn.Otherwise we will be leaving the majority to be chaff, to be burn in the unquenchable fire(Matt.3:12).
Contd....2-When we are plainly speaking about Jesus, Salvation, miracles, unity etc., the important fact is ignored and Who has worn the label of believer is also misguided and motivated to lead a liberal life with the world. So my request is, let us be dedicated to be the true evangelists sowing, preparing and reaping to gather the wheat in the barn.Otherwise we will be leaving the majority to be chaff, to be burn in the unquenchable fire(Matt.3:12).
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james mathew (September 9, 2013)
Br. a.s.m., I really appreciate your effort for sowing the seed where ever you get chance.It is a plan of our God to use any source to introduce Jesus, the saviour to gentiles. Generally the sower is expected to just sow the seed of Gospel. But God entrust a team as given in Ephe.4:11 to prepare the grown seed for reaping.Here the command of Jesus in Matt.28:19,20 is the most important. "...... ,,,,,....baptise........ teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you". All Christian labelled denominations including Roman Catholic Church with charismatic movement are sower. But the responsibility entrusted on the Church established on the day of Pentecost is to be both sower and reaper. And also given responsibility to " reap that for which you have not laboured."( John,4:38). Reaped have to gather in to the barn( Matt.3:12). contd...
Br. a.s.m., I really appreciate your effort for sowing the seed where ever you get chance.It is a plan of our God to use any source to introduce Jesus, the saviour to gentiles. Generally the sower is expected to just sow the seed of Gospel. But God entrust a team as given in Ephe.4:11 to prepare the grown seed for reaping.Here the command of Jesus in Matt.28:19,20 is the most important. "...... ,,,,,....baptise........ teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you". All Christian labelled denominations including Roman Catholic Church with charismatic movement are sower. But the responsibility entrusted on the Church established on the day of Pentecost is to be both sower and reaper. And also given responsibility to " reap that for which you have not laboured."( John,4:38). Reaped have to gather in to the barn( Matt.3:12). contd...
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a. s. mathew (September 9, 2013)
contd:3 she was keeping an isolated attitude, never tried to respond to anything i said. i prayed to god, i would like to share the way of salvation with this girl but she is taking a bitter attitude. i didn't say anything to her for a a long time. then she began to relax and responded. when i told about christ, she replied " i don't need his help, i can handle my life by myself". she goes to bangalore every year for six months for some studies. then i told her my personal story and she listened to me. while i left her, the holy spirit led me to tell her " young girl, you think that you can handle your life by yourself, but one day you will be forced to meet jesus when faced with some encounter in life because he is real and living today". i saw her crying when i left, the seed was already planted and began to grow. i did my part and the rest belongs to god. brother james, i am telling only that role sharing, working with god's children of all denominations.
contd:3 she was keeping an isolated attitude, never tried to respond to anything i said. i prayed to god, i would like to share the way of salvation with this girl but she is taking a bitter attitude. i didn't say anything to her for a a long time. then she began to relax and responded. when i told about christ, she replied " i don't need his help, i can handle my life by myself". she goes to bangalore every year for six months for some studies. then i told her my personal story and she listened to me. while i left her, the holy spirit led me to tell her " young girl, you think that you can handle your life by yourself, but one day you will be forced to meet jesus when faced with some encounter in life because he is real and living today". i saw her crying when i left, the seed was already planted and began to grow. i did my part and the rest belongs to god. brother james, i am telling only that role sharing, working with god's children of all denominations.
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a. s. mathew (September 9, 2013)
contd:2 denominations must be united to tell about the gospel "good news", after hearing the good news, they can be led to a local congregation for their spiritual growth. while i was in delhi, i went to visit some slum schools conducted for poor children who had no chance to attend even the government schools. these children will come and the teachers will teach them to read and write and the subject of the lessons are from the bible. these children when they reach home will talk about jesus to their parents and for them that is a new unheard god. finally, the parents will approach the teachers and they are lead to the pastors and the way of salvation is presented. god created me with an extrovert personality and so met not hundreds but thousands of people in life. the greatest joy of life was sharing the name of jesus to them. while flying from frankfurt to dubai, one girl from germany was sitting close to me.
contd:2 denominations must be united to tell about the gospel "good news", after hearing the good news, they can be led to a local congregation for their spiritual growth. while i was in delhi, i went to visit some slum schools conducted for poor children who had no chance to attend even the government schools. these children will come and the teachers will teach them to read and write and the subject of the lessons are from the bible. these children when they reach home will talk about jesus to their parents and for them that is a new unheard god. finally, the parents will approach the teachers and they are lead to the pastors and the way of salvation is presented. god created me with an extrovert personality and so met not hundreds but thousands of people in life. the greatest joy of life was sharing the name of jesus to them. while flying from frankfurt to dubai, one girl from germany was sitting close to me.
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a. s. mathew (September 9, 2013)
bro. james mathew: i am not disputing your interpretation and the exposition of the theological argument. you are talking about the fish inside the fish cage, but i am talking about the fish in the ocean dying without getting into the cage of salvation and eternal life. dr. oswald j. smith, founder and former pastor of the people's church in toronto was driven by a great zeal in evangelizing the world, and that church sent more missionaries to the world than any other church, 85% of the income was given to missionary work. the one sided inclination of the religious leadership to groom the believers with all the mega dose of holiness and righteousness, thus preparing for the bliss of heaven seems like the greatest ministry for some, i can't blame them for their vision and calling. how many people of india are exposed to the simple way of salvation declared by jesus at the cross? i am simply drawing the attention that believers of all
bro. james mathew: i am not disputing your interpretation and the exposition of the theological argument. you are talking about the fish inside the fish cage, but i am talking about the fish in the ocean dying without getting into the cage of salvation and eternal life. dr. oswald j. smith, founder and former pastor of the people's church in toronto was driven by a great zeal in evangelizing the world, and that church sent more missionaries to the world than any other church, 85% of the income was given to missionary work. the one sided inclination of the religious leadership to groom the believers with all the mega dose of holiness and righteousness, thus preparing for the bliss of heaven seems like the greatest ministry for some, i can't blame them for their vision and calling. how many people of india are exposed to the simple way of salvation declared by jesus at the cross? i am simply drawing the attention that believers of all
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james mathew (September 8, 2013)
Contd....3-Jesus told:"He who believes and is baptised will be saved". Holy spirit explained in Rom. 10:9 about what to believe. It is only first part of the process of salvation. What was the Apostolic tradition? They were baptising those repented and call upon Christ for salvation at once. That is the baptism in the name of Christ. Repented ones accept baptism calling upon Jesus and the Baptist baptised them declaring, this baptism is the result of the Father attracted , the Holy Spirit taught and saved by the Son.( "baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit") I again remember the Gospel is very simple but not an untied book.
Contd....3-Jesus told:"He who believes and is baptised will be saved". Holy spirit explained in Rom. 10:9 about what to believe. It is only first part of the process of salvation. What was the Apostolic tradition? They were baptising those repented and call upon Christ for salvation at once. That is the baptism in the name of Christ. Repented ones accept baptism calling upon Jesus and the Baptist baptised them declaring, this baptism is the result of the Father attracted , the Holy Spirit taught and saved by the Son.( "baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit") I again remember the Gospel is very simple but not an untied book.
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james mathew (September 8, 2013)
Contd.....2-They heard about Christ, attracted in the Gospel,expected prosperity, but as they were not advised to be dead in flesh they held the name of Christ and led their life with all worldly pleasure. Now resulting in *** *** marriage, sodomism etc. Who will reap the souls in US for eternity with Christ? What is preaching by Joel Ostine, son of John Ostine now? He curses Peter, Paul and John!!! The doctrine of separation is not for a joke or arguments, but to observe strictly. You pointed out that in US, born again but not baptised are also permitted to participate in Lord's table.The great fault occurred is the separation of the process of born again and faith baptism. Contd....
Contd.....2-They heard about Christ, attracted in the Gospel,expected prosperity, but as they were not advised to be dead in flesh they held the name of Christ and led their life with all worldly pleasure. Now resulting in *** *** marriage, sodomism etc. Who will reap the souls in US for eternity with Christ? What is preaching by Joel Ostine, son of John Ostine now? He curses Peter, Paul and John!!! The doctrine of separation is not for a joke or arguments, but to observe strictly. You pointed out that in US, born again but not baptised are also permitted to participate in Lord's table.The great fault occurred is the separation of the process of born again and faith baptism. Contd....
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james mathew (September 8, 2013)
Br. a.s.m., let us continue little more? I stress again in, ecumenism is the unity of Christian labelled denominations with different doctrines. The prayer of Jesus was not for an ecumenism. It is a call for unity in Christ after denying all sources to enjoy worldly life; to be dead in flesh, and to accept Jesus as the only saviour and Lord. If one is dead in flesh there will be no arguments to compromise with the world. Door to Christ is ever opened for all, even for the great sinner, during the New Testament period. But it is not by compromising to the doctrinal differences.This fact has declared by Jesus in Matt.7:21-24 and John,6:47-71. Dr. Billy Graham and some other prominent preachers in Us were only sowers of the seed of the kingdom of God. But reaping is entirely different thing. what is the situation of those heard the Gospel from those prominent preachers now? Contd.......
Br. a.s.m., let us continue little more? I stress again in, ecumenism is the unity of Christian labelled denominations with different doctrines. The prayer of Jesus was not for an ecumenism. It is a call for unity in Christ after denying all sources to enjoy worldly life; to be dead in flesh, and to accept Jesus as the only saviour and Lord. If one is dead in flesh there will be no arguments to compromise with the world. Door to Christ is ever opened for all, even for the great sinner, during the New Testament period. But it is not by compromising to the doctrinal differences.This fact has declared by Jesus in Matt.7:21-24 and John,6:47-71. Dr. Billy Graham and some other prominent preachers in Us were only sowers of the seed of the kingdom of God. But reaping is entirely different thing. what is the situation of those heard the Gospel from those prominent preachers now? Contd.......
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a. s. mathew (September 8, 2013)
Contyd: 3: denominations to establish Churches. The denominational spirit infiltrated in the mindset of the believers of various denominations is far worse the than the influence of the political ideology of various party followers. When the first Itinerant Evangelistic Conference was conducted in Amsterdam in 1983 under the auspicious of the Billy Graham Association, at the end of the conference, the Lord's supper was officiated by the Canterburry Arch Bishop, the head of the Anglican Church, participants from all over the world representing all the evangelical denominations participated in that. That was fulfilling the last prayer of JESUS. My mind may be somewhat different, but I have observed with confusion and big question mark, why the Christians of other denominations are not participating in a convention of other denomination in the same village or city, whereas they will participate in the social and political functions of even non-Christians ????
Contyd: 3: denominations to establish Churches. The denominational spirit infiltrated in the mindset of the believers of various denominations is far worse the than the influence of the political ideology of various party followers. When the first Itinerant Evangelistic Conference was conducted in Amsterdam in 1983 under the auspicious of the Billy Graham Association, at the end of the conference, the Lord's supper was officiated by the Canterburry Arch Bishop, the head of the Anglican Church, participants from all over the world representing all the evangelical denominations participated in that. That was fulfilling the last prayer of JESUS. My mind may be somewhat different, but I have observed with confusion and big question mark, why the Christians of other denominations are not participating in a convention of other denomination in the same village or city, whereas they will participate in the social and political functions of even non-Christians ????
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a. s. mathew (September 8, 2013)
Contd; 2 When the Lord's supper is offered in the Pentecostal Churches in Kerala, it is an open communion for anybody who is born-again and baptized. But in the brethren Church (based on my experience years back), it is given only to the Brethren believers-as a closed communion. But the same Pentecostal denomination in the U.S., they will say that anybody who is born again can participate, the subject of Baptism is not raised. Likewise the outside holiness issues are totally alien in the U.S. Churches, but the same denomination in Kerala has strict set rules of external holiness. If we are looking to these man-made doctrinal issues of fundamentalism and holiness, we Christians will have to stand apart while the world is sinking deeply without hearing the goods of the gospel. We will be judged by GOD for our deliberate negligence. My uncle Dr. M. M. Ninan, while teaching in Sudan, even though he was Marthomite, he took great initiative working with the Pentecostal
Contd; 2 When the Lord's supper is offered in the Pentecostal Churches in Kerala, it is an open communion for anybody who is born-again and baptized. But in the brethren Church (based on my experience years back), it is given only to the Brethren believers-as a closed communion. But the same Pentecostal denomination in the U.S., they will say that anybody who is born again can participate, the subject of Baptism is not raised. Likewise the outside holiness issues are totally alien in the U.S. Churches, but the same denomination in Kerala has strict set rules of external holiness. If we are looking to these man-made doctrinal issues of fundamentalism and holiness, we Christians will have to stand apart while the world is sinking deeply without hearing the goods of the gospel. We will be judged by GOD for our deliberate negligence. My uncle Dr. M. M. Ninan, while teaching in Sudan, even though he was Marthomite, he took great initiative working with the Pentecostal
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a. s. mathew (September 8, 2013)
brother james mathew: thank you. since we are not creating a political fight in the election campaign or character assassination of the opponents, presumably, the bj would be happy to publish our divergent theological view points. how sad it was when billy graham stretched his hands with other denominations other than the baptists in his evangelistic campaign, the so called fundamental pundits like dr. john r. rice- dr. carl mcintire- dr. bob jones etc began to shower him with arrows; but god used billy graham to reach out millions all over the world. what was the last prayer of jesus? " that all of them may be one, father just as you are in me and i am in you" john 17:21. indeed, jesus's last prayer was an "ecumenical prayer". jesus empowered and commissioned his upward looking disheartened disciples to go and preach the gospel, he didn't tell them to start any particular denomination. these bunch of denominations are man-made, for some minor difference of doctrine.
brother james mathew: thank you. since we are not creating a political fight in the election campaign or character assassination of the opponents, presumably, the bj would be happy to publish our divergent theological view points. how sad it was when billy graham stretched his hands with other denominations other than the baptists in his evangelistic campaign, the so called fundamental pundits like dr. john r. rice- dr. carl mcintire- dr. bob jones etc began to shower him with arrows; but god used billy graham to reach out millions all over the world. what was the last prayer of jesus? " that all of them may be one, father just as you are in me and i am in you" john 17:21. indeed, jesus's last prayer was an "ecumenical prayer". jesus empowered and commissioned his upward looking disheartened disciples to go and preach the gospel, he didn't tell them to start any particular denomination. these bunch of denominations are man-made, for some minor difference of doctrine.
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james mathew (September 8, 2013)
Contd.. 2 -Here non-veil team and veil team can never join hands. Some groups teach as 'unity in essentials and diversity in non- essentials'. who has the right in the world to sort between essentials and non essentials from the Word of God? will they argue and prove it before the Judgement seat? Is the freedom in Christ is the freedom to interpret the word of God to suit to the worldly life? Freedom in Christ is the freedom for the children of God to go to Christ directly without a human mediator or priest. Interpreting word of God on a liberal attitude may be supported by majority, but it will harm the interpreter and followers in the destination. So let us be very careful to be liberal.
Contd.. 2 -Here non-veil team and veil team can never join hands. Some groups teach as 'unity in essentials and diversity in non- essentials'. who has the right in the world to sort between essentials and non essentials from the Word of God? will they argue and prove it before the Judgement seat? Is the freedom in Christ is the freedom to interpret the word of God to suit to the worldly life? Freedom in Christ is the freedom for the children of God to go to Christ directly without a human mediator or priest. Interpreting word of God on a liberal attitude may be supported by majority, but it will harm the interpreter and followers in the destination. So let us be very careful to be liberal.
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james mathew (September 8, 2013)
Br.a.s.m,Please don't misunderstand me.The comments we are writing here is not to throw mud mutually.But we are expressing our views to help the readers too to choose the right. where I differ with you is on your view, that believers of different denominations have to join hands irrespective of doctrinal differences ie.,in the label of 'Christian'. Ecumenism is not the unity of Hindus, Muslims,Judes and Christians. it is the unity of Christian denominations viz. Roman Catholics, Orthodox- Jacobites, CSI, Marthoma, Pentecostal divisions etc.If you do not understand this difference we shall discus more if columnist permits. The most important thing is believers can't be in different denominations.They can be in different organisations. But faith and doctrines can't be unique for each. eg. women are not insisted to use veil on head when in prayer in new generation Christian denominations.But as far as it is written in 1Cori.Ch.11 believers have to follow it. Contd....
Br.a.s.m,Please don't misunderstand me.The comments we are writing here is not to throw mud mutually.But we are expressing our views to help the readers too to choose the right. where I differ with you is on your view, that believers of different denominations have to join hands irrespective of doctrinal differences ie.,in the label of 'Christian'. Ecumenism is not the unity of Hindus, Muslims,Judes and Christians. it is the unity of Christian denominations viz. Roman Catholics, Orthodox- Jacobites, CSI, Marthoma, Pentecostal divisions etc.If you do not understand this difference we shall discus more if columnist permits. The most important thing is believers can't be in different denominations.They can be in different organisations. But faith and doctrines can't be unique for each. eg. women are not insisted to use veil on head when in prayer in new generation Christian denominations.But as far as it is written in 1Cori.Ch.11 believers have to follow it. Contd....
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a. s. mathew (September 8, 2013)
Brother James Mathew: How you are deviating your view point to mislead the readers and to throw mud at me? I do remember like yesterday, when my uncle Dr. M. M. Thomas was protested by a loud noise at the Maramon convention for his ecumenical view point. I am not for the ecumenism of the denominations but the ecumenism of the believers. Hope and trust that you will erase your misunderstanding about me once for all.
Brother James Mathew: How you are deviating your view point to mislead the readers and to throw mud at me? I do remember like yesterday, when my uncle Dr. M. M. Thomas was protested by a loud noise at the Maramon convention for his ecumenical view point. I am not for the ecumenism of the denominations but the ecumenism of the believers. Hope and trust that you will erase your misunderstanding about me once for all.
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james mathew (September 8, 2013)
Sorry, Br. a s m, Your intention is to associate with the spirit of Antichrist to his target of ecumenism under a liberal Pope. The Church of God and God's children can never join hand with your intention.But you can be happy when you see the majority come in your way, which will be the broad way with wide gate to destruction as Jesus Christ warned in Matt.7:13. If you fear the narrow gate you have no other option.
Sorry, Br. a s m, Your intention is to associate with the spirit of Antichrist to his target of ecumenism under a liberal Pope. The Church of God and God's children can never join hand with your intention.But you can be happy when you see the majority come in your way, which will be the broad way with wide gate to destruction as Jesus Christ warned in Matt.7:13. If you fear the narrow gate you have no other option.
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a. s. mathew (September 8, 2013)
brother james mathew: so happy to read that somebody is telling it openly that god's children are above denominational walls of separation.
if the believers of all denominations can hold hands together, we can change the world very fast as god's revolutionaries. i do remember the hot and mad arguments in between the pentecostal and brethren believers about the holy spirit (speaking in tongues) and the security of salvation issues in front of the hindus and muslims. instead of telling the hindus and muslim about the salvation through jesus christ by both denominational believers with joined hands, they were fighting for the doctrines! great men and women of god in many denominations have influenced me, and i have simply listed those pastors influenced me in the pentecostal churches in kerala while i was growing up. when open air meetings were conducted by any denomination, i used to join them since we are all preaching the same jesus.
brother james mathew: so happy to read that somebody is telling it openly that god's children are above denominational walls of separation.
if the believers of all denominations can hold hands together, we can change the world very fast as god's revolutionaries. i do remember the hot and mad arguments in between the pentecostal and brethren believers about the holy spirit (speaking in tongues) and the security of salvation issues in front of the hindus and muslims. instead of telling the hindus and muslim about the salvation through jesus christ by both denominational believers with joined hands, they were fighting for the doctrines! great men and women of god in many denominations have influenced me, and i have simply listed those pastors influenced me in the pentecostal churches in kerala while i was growing up. when open air meetings were conducted by any denomination, i used to join them since we are all preaching the same jesus.
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james mathew (September 7, 2013)
Br. ASM, First of all , please recognise the fact that there cannot be any denominations among God's children. This is the basic knowledge required. The New Testament church of God,the bride of Christ, the camp of God's children, identified by accepting Jesus Christ and took faith baptism, is one and universal.Br. you are repeating the term 'you love all denominations of God's children, the good works you have done and good relations you had and have with some prominent leaders. But I am sorry to say,all are without basic knowledge about the God's plan for the formation of His Church revealed in Rom. 8:30 also.
Br. ASM, First of all , please recognise the fact that there cannot be any denominations among God's children. This is the basic knowledge required. The New Testament church of God,the bride of Christ, the camp of God's children, identified by accepting Jesus Christ and took faith baptism, is one and universal.Br. you are repeating the term 'you love all denominations of God's children, the good works you have done and good relations you had and have with some prominent leaders. But I am sorry to say,all are without basic knowledge about the God's plan for the formation of His Church revealed in Rom. 8:30 also.
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a. s. mathew (September 7, 2013)
Truthteller: If such organizations are formed, more politics would be entering the Church. Years back, when the RSS was getting stronger in Kerala, there was a rumor that they were going to create problems at the Maramon convention; so the Marxist party approached the Church to give protection. The Church refused it, simply trusted in the Living GOD for protection.
Truthteller: If such organizations are formed, more politics would be entering the Church. Years back, when the RSS was getting stronger in Kerala, there was a rumor that they were going to create problems at the Maramon convention; so the Marxist party approached the Church to give protection. The Church refused it, simply trusted in the Living GOD for protection.
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a. s. mathew (September 7, 2013)
Missed the first part: Some of the readers may get a wrong notion about me, so let me explain openly about my respect for these great men of GOD who have influenced me while I was a young man, and knew them all personally. Pastor T. M. Varghese the most cheerful giver and always a delightful personality with a sweet conversation. Pastor K. E. Abraham The best guest, another Charles Spurgeon of India with a great non-denominational spiritual outlook. Pastor P.M. Thomas the great pioneer of evangelism in N. India, suffered a lot of Christ. Bishop. M.A. Thomas, Rajastan another Father Damion of India, a man of great courage and faith. Dr. Paul Pillai, the real Indian "Paul" who loves GOD's children of all denominations with only one passion to evangelize India at any cost or sacrifice. Pastor Oommoen Abraham (son of Pastor K. E. Abraham) very humble spirited-compassionate person.
Missed the first part: Some of the readers may get a wrong notion about me, so let me explain openly about my respect for these great men of GOD who have influenced me while I was a young man, and knew them all personally. Pastor T. M. Varghese the most cheerful giver and always a delightful personality with a sweet conversation. Pastor K. E. Abraham The best guest, another Charles Spurgeon of India with a great non-denominational spiritual outlook. Pastor P.M. Thomas the great pioneer of evangelism in N. India, suffered a lot of Christ. Bishop. M.A. Thomas, Rajastan another Father Damion of India, a man of great courage and faith. Dr. Paul Pillai, the real Indian "Paul" who loves GOD's children of all denominations with only one passion to evangelize India at any cost or sacrifice. Pastor Oommoen Abraham (son of Pastor K. E. Abraham) very humble spirited-compassionate person.
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jaycee (September 7, 2013)
Very good suggestion truthteller.But don't worry, S Pillai is a pongi pastor who do know nothing about Christianity. Against a single threat he lost mental stability. if so How can he fight against Satan and his tactics? If he was a true believer how can he call Hindu converts to unite to fight for him? ullilirippu purathayi !!! kashtom.
Very good suggestion truthteller.But don't worry, S Pillai is a pongi pastor who do know nothing about Christianity. Against a single threat he lost mental stability. if so How can he fight against Satan and his tactics? If he was a true believer how can he call Hindu converts to unite to fight for him? ullilirippu purathayi !!! kashtom.
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a. s. mathew (September 7, 2013)
now remembering some other names. pastor t. t. joseph of kallessery.
a compassionate cheerful giver.
pastor v. a. thampi (he may not remember me but he used to pay regular visit to my father while i was attending college) he was then, as a young preacher preaching on the roadside and villages was on a fire every time i met him, his firebrand charisma was on his red face which inspired me.
now remembering some other names. pastor t. t. joseph of kallessery.
a compassionate cheerful giver.
pastor v. a. thampi (he may not remember me but he used to pay regular visit to my father while i was attending college) he was then, as a young preacher preaching on the roadside and villages was on a fire every time i met him, his firebrand charisma was on his red face which inspired me.
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a. s. mathew (September 7, 2013)
contd:2 pastor v. t. joseph, (ipc- puthenpeedika) the most entertaining preacher i have heard in my younger days, born with a great sense of humour. pastor p. j. thomas of sharoon pentecostal church. he helped many young people to come to the u.s., a great humanitarian in heart. pastor ashadamodi oommachen. the soft-heard-the most childlike-and innocent person i have seen. when he prayed, i started crying without knowing the reason. met only once when he came to our home. i knew all these people personally, they have influenced my life through giving insight in different aspect. i love and respect ministers of the gospel-evangelists etc who are called and sincerely toiled for the kingdom of god.
contd:2 pastor v. t. joseph, (ipc- puthenpeedika) the most entertaining preacher i have heard in my younger days, born with a great sense of humour. pastor p. j. thomas of sharoon pentecostal church. he helped many young people to come to the u.s., a great humanitarian in heart. pastor ashadamodi oommachen. the soft-heard-the most childlike-and innocent person i have seen. when he prayed, i started crying without knowing the reason. met only once when he came to our home. i knew all these people personally, they have influenced my life through giving insight in different aspect. i love and respect ministers of the gospel-evangelists etc who are called and sincerely toiled for the kingdom of god.
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truthteller (September 7, 2013)
some gundas are taking control of ipc. Someone beat up Pr. Sudarshanann pillai. The incident is completely wrong. However there is a movement to unite believers who converted from hinduism. Do they have a special right? So we should have organizations for converts whose past provide similarities...catholics, murderers, adulterers, nairs, jacobites, and so on so that each group will have representation.
some gundas are taking control of ipc. Someone beat up Pr. Sudarshanann pillai. The incident is completely wrong. However there is a movement to unite believers who converted from hinduism. Do they have a special right? So we should have organizations for converts whose past provide similarities...catholics, murderers, adulterers, nairs, jacobites, and so on so that each group will have representation.
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a. s. mathew (September 6, 2013)
Contd:2 The main oil supply of the world is from the gulf region. Iraq 3 million gl/day and it is going through underground tunnel through Syria before loading in the oil tankers. At any time, Syria can chock the supply. Through the Straight of Hormuz, oil from Kuwait (1.6 M) Saudi Arabia (11.5 M) Qutar (2.8 M) U.A.E. (3.2 M) and IRAN 3.5 M)is flowing. Iran is playing very close games with Syria like supplying rockets and other war equipments, and if Iran will block the Straight of Hormuz, then the gas price would be shooting upward and the whole world would be coming to a an unseen predicament. Very urgent time to pray to GOD.
Contd:2 The main oil supply of the world is from the gulf region. Iraq 3 million gl/day and it is going through underground tunnel through Syria before loading in the oil tankers. At any time, Syria can chock the supply. Through the Straight of Hormuz, oil from Kuwait (1.6 M) Saudi Arabia (11.5 M) Qutar (2.8 M) U.A.E. (3.2 M) and IRAN 3.5 M)is flowing. Iran is playing very close games with Syria like supplying rockets and other war equipments, and if Iran will block the Straight of Hormuz, then the gas price would be shooting upward and the whole world would be coming to a an unseen predicament. Very urgent time to pray to GOD.
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a. s. mathew (September 6, 2013)
if the bj does't like to publish my comments, i do respectfully acknowledge their right. when the gold price was shooting upward every day, when it went close to $ 2000.00/oz, when i was praying about this trend, then god put in my heart " these people are missing 'l' out of gold so think that gold is "god". i wrote the same thing in the the economic times and they published all of my comments. please pray for me, now i am quoting bible verses and they are publishing them all. recently i wrote to get copy of the bible and to read it because the biblical prophecies are being fulfilled. within a week after i wrote about gold, two of the billionaires, george sores and carl icahn sold billions worth of gold, and the price of gold began to plummet very fast. god is giving us some very warning lessons now. how the syrian crisis is going to develop? if god won't intervene it it, we are going to face the worst crisis. let me explain as the lord has put in my heart. contd:2
if the bj does't like to publish my comments, i do respectfully acknowledge their right. when the gold price was shooting upward every day, when it went close to $ 2000.00/oz, when i was praying about this trend, then god put in my heart " these people are missing 'l' out of gold so think that gold is "god". i wrote the same thing in the the economic times and they published all of my comments. please pray for me, now i am quoting bible verses and they are publishing them all. recently i wrote to get copy of the bible and to read it because the biblical prophecies are being fulfilled. within a week after i wrote about gold, two of the billionaires, george sores and carl icahn sold billions worth of gold, and the price of gold began to plummet very fast. god is giving us some very warning lessons now. how the syrian crisis is going to develop? if god won't intervene it it, we are going to face the worst crisis. let me explain as the lord has put in my heart. contd:2
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a. s. mathew (September 6, 2013)
Pastor Eapen, Melayil: " But better don't touch the anointed ones of GOD" Very true and touching them can be very dangerous. I do recall this event. Pastor P.M. Thomas who went to Kashmir as a pioneering missionary had been to my home in the U.S. a few years back.
When he left his teaching career in Kerala and went to Kashmir, lived in hut and suffered a lot for GOD's kingdom. Some of the well known evangelistic leaders of India came to the Ministry through his ministry like
Dr. P.G. Vargis, Captain Samuel etc. Pastor P.M. Thomas got a bus for the ministry after a very long time, and the local police began to give him headache and asked the bus for their personal fun. But he said, this is LORD's bus and it is only used for the ministry. One day, the police came and took the bus for some fun ride and in the middle of the way, they were attacked by the rowdies at the forest without knowing that they were police. The police stopped the harassing. Instant divine judgment!
Pastor Eapen, Melayil: " But better don't touch the anointed ones of GOD" Very true and touching them can be very dangerous. I do recall this event. Pastor P.M. Thomas who went to Kashmir as a pioneering missionary had been to my home in the U.S. a few years back.
When he left his teaching career in Kerala and went to Kashmir, lived in hut and suffered a lot for GOD's kingdom. Some of the well known evangelistic leaders of India came to the Ministry through his ministry like
Dr. P.G. Vargis, Captain Samuel etc. Pastor P.M. Thomas got a bus for the ministry after a very long time, and the local police began to give him headache and asked the bus for their personal fun. But he said, this is LORD's bus and it is only used for the ministry. One day, the police came and took the bus for some fun ride and in the middle of the way, they were attacked by the rowdies at the forest without knowing that they were police. The police stopped the harassing. Instant divine judgment!
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eapen,melayil (September 6, 2013)
It is easy to comment about Pastors. But better don't touch the anointed ones of God, whether they are visitors or not they are very special to God. If somebody has burden to north India, don't give to our visiting pastor's but don't try to stop by others, treat them nicely. one thing I will say if you give something to your pastor or visiting pastor, you will never struggle to have a better life.
It is easy to comment about Pastors. But better don't touch the anointed ones of God, whether they are visitors or not they are very special to God. If somebody has burden to north India, don't give to our visiting pastor's but don't try to stop by others, treat them nicely. one thing I will say if you give something to your pastor or visiting pastor, you will never struggle to have a better life.
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u s pastor (September 5, 2013)
Please don't make negative comments about VP. Most of them genuine. thanks
Please don't make negative comments about VP. Most of them genuine. thanks
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a. s. mathew (September 5, 2013)
Contd:2 Something happened to the 2nd part, so let me continue. From 2005-2007, I made several missionary trips to north India and West Bengal. Never got that experience of sleeping in such uncomfortable places in cold weather under the thick "chowkalam" provided by the host and the chowkalam never had been to the washer. Also eating from the road side was another great experience of life. When the spirit of murmuring the devil tried to bring, then the holy spirit reminded me " you are not in a vacation, but in the ministry, so take up the cross and walk cheerfully". The greatest joy was to see the great response of the people to the gospel. While eating lunch with Dr. Lal of the Allahabad Christian University in Chicago, he told me " brother, we are going to witness the great revolution of the Holy Spirit in India". The Christians of Kerala have a great responsibility to undertake the spreading of the gospel. Are we ready to listen and obey that divine mandate?
Contd:2 Something happened to the 2nd part, so let me continue. From 2005-2007, I made several missionary trips to north India and West Bengal. Never got that experience of sleeping in such uncomfortable places in cold weather under the thick "chowkalam" provided by the host and the chowkalam never had been to the washer. Also eating from the road side was another great experience of life. When the spirit of murmuring the devil tried to bring, then the holy spirit reminded me " you are not in a vacation, but in the ministry, so take up the cross and walk cheerfully". The greatest joy was to see the great response of the people to the gospel. While eating lunch with Dr. Lal of the Allahabad Christian University in Chicago, he told me " brother, we are going to witness the great revolution of the Holy Spirit in India". The Christians of Kerala have a great responsibility to undertake the spreading of the gospel. Are we ready to listen and obey that divine mandate?
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a. s. mathew (September 5, 2013)
brother james mathew: great challenging comment. there is no question that we are approaching the last days told by jesus, if we are too blinded to see the red writing on the wall, it is too sad. while listening to the personal testimony of umasankar ias, who was deliberately tortured by the political forces of tamil nadu, both mr. karunanithi and srimathi
jayalalitha, he stood firm in the promises of god and now being used greatly to reach out people all across india. we the people of kerala were blessed with 100 literacy, remitting 27% of the foreign money to india (69 billion dollars total/year) because the gospel of jesus came to kerala in the first century itself. the gospel of christ has multiple impact in the society; in our personal salvation-social uplift and economical prosperity. as brother james mathew has very emphatically and specifically expressed, the churches of kerala have a spiritual and moral obligation to evangelize north india. contd:2
brother james mathew: great challenging comment. there is no question that we are approaching the last days told by jesus, if we are too blinded to see the red writing on the wall, it is too sad. while listening to the personal testimony of umasankar ias, who was deliberately tortured by the political forces of tamil nadu, both mr. karunanithi and srimathi
jayalalitha, he stood firm in the promises of god and now being used greatly to reach out people all across india. we the people of kerala were blessed with 100 literacy, remitting 27% of the foreign money to india (69 billion dollars total/year) because the gospel of jesus came to kerala in the first century itself. the gospel of christ has multiple impact in the society; in our personal salvation-social uplift and economical prosperity. as brother james mathew has very emphatically and specifically expressed, the churches of kerala have a spiritual and moral obligation to evangelize north india. contd:2
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james mathew (September 4, 2013)
Contd.... God's children in Kerala has to raise funds from their own to maintain and send true evangelists all over the world including other states in India. Instead of blocking money in constructing and decorating residences and church office complexes in 3-4-5 star facilities and in acquiring wide areas of land for generations, let us utilise the funds for the purposes God entrusted on us.
Contd.... God's children in Kerala has to raise funds from their own to maintain and send true evangelists all over the world including other states in India. Instead of blocking money in constructing and decorating residences and church office complexes in 3-4-5 star facilities and in acquiring wide areas of land for generations, let us utilise the funds for the purposes God entrusted on us.
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james mathew (September 4, 2013)
Those who are appointed by God within the scope of Eph.4:11,will not be left to go to seek the US Dollar.The Dollar commands the seekers to go to North India.The true God's servants have to preach the true gospel all over the world,not for Dollar,but souls to know and follow the true path for salvation. Once God sent evangelists from abroad to Kerala. Now it is the time God given to Keralites to go abroad to preach the truth, where it is totally adulterated by the power of the spirit of the anti- Christ. Even in Kerala, lakhs of people hope Jesus will take them to eternity.But they are not taught about the God's plan and freedom in Christ but are forced to rely on Priesthood. Now the responsibility of Evangelists in Kerala is high. Contd..2
Those who are appointed by God within the scope of Eph.4:11,will not be left to go to seek the US Dollar.The Dollar commands the seekers to go to North India.The true God's servants have to preach the true gospel all over the world,not for Dollar,but souls to know and follow the true path for salvation. Once God sent evangelists from abroad to Kerala. Now it is the time God given to Keralites to go abroad to preach the truth, where it is totally adulterated by the power of the spirit of the anti- Christ. Even in Kerala, lakhs of people hope Jesus will take them to eternity.But they are not taught about the God's plan and freedom in Christ but are forced to rely on Priesthood. Now the responsibility of Evangelists in Kerala is high. Contd..2
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a. s. mathew (September 4, 2013)
PS.S. THOMAS: Excellent comment: indeed an eye opening suggestion to be adopted by all the Churches. Every congregation has a moral and spiritual responsibility to undertake ministries around the world, especially in our homeland. Let one congregation or a few of them in each area may elect a brother of missionary calling to visit those needed areas of North India, find the real ministries and greater ministry can be done with our hard-earned dollar. GOD will bless us
greatly for investing the money wisely to reach out souls for CHRIST.
PS.S. THOMAS: Excellent comment: indeed an eye opening suggestion to be adopted by all the Churches. Every congregation has a moral and spiritual responsibility to undertake ministries around the world, especially in our homeland. Let one congregation or a few of them in each area may elect a brother of missionary calling to visit those needed areas of North India, find the real ministries and greater ministry can be done with our hard-earned dollar. GOD will bless us
greatly for investing the money wisely to reach out souls for CHRIST.
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ps. s. thomas (September 4, 2013)
Truly speaking 90% of the visiting ministers are coming for upgrading their lexurry .
We need to put a full stop for this. Why can't few brothers, families or a church together adopt a ministry or village or church in India and support them ? Otherwise most of your generous giving are falling into the wrong box. Before giving appointment or inviting a visitor the church pastor or secretery should ask few question to them
1. When was the last visit to US or other foreign country?
2. Do you own a house ?
3. Do you own a car ?
4. Any of your children are in the ministry or Bible college ?
5. What is our income in the local church ( if they are a pastor of the church )?
But ministers called for ministering in the churches or conferences are excluded .
Truly speaking 90% of the visiting ministers are coming for upgrading their lexurry .
We need to put a full stop for this. Why can't few brothers, families or a church together adopt a ministry or village or church in India and support them ? Otherwise most of your generous giving are falling into the wrong box. Before giving appointment or inviting a visitor the church pastor or secretery should ask few question to them
1. When was the last visit to US or other foreign country?
2. Do you own a house ?
3. Do you own a car ?
4. Any of your children are in the ministry or Bible college ?
5. What is our income in the local church ( if they are a pastor of the church )?
But ministers called for ministering in the churches or conferences are excluded .
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a. s. mathew (August 30, 2013)
contd:2 when he came to meet me on tuesday, he said "god stopped me to meet you, and god told me that you are going to come and speak to 500 ministers in salem for 3 days". i said, fine, arrange that if god has told you. he smiled and said, it cost rs. 250000-300000, you will have to spend but you take the pictures and you can make very easily five to ten times of that amount from the americans. it was a rather a shock for me. he begged me to change the departure date and to have some meetings in chicago in some churches through my contacts, i didn't respond to that at all. within four months, another call came from india that he is coming and would like to stay with me, also with my tamil nadu friend. we simply refused his request. is it a ministry or business? there are many like this landing in the u.s. while i was attending a conference in willowcreek church in chicago, met a few there came from india and were trying to remain here for a few weeks.
contd:2 when he came to meet me on tuesday, he said "god stopped me to meet you, and god told me that you are going to come and speak to 500 ministers in salem for 3 days". i said, fine, arrange that if god has told you. he smiled and said, it cost rs. 250000-300000, you will have to spend but you take the pictures and you can make very easily five to ten times of that amount from the americans. it was a rather a shock for me. he begged me to change the departure date and to have some meetings in chicago in some churches through my contacts, i didn't respond to that at all. within four months, another call came from india that he is coming and would like to stay with me, also with my tamil nadu friend. we simply refused his request. is it a ministry or business? there are many like this landing in the u.s. while i was attending a conference in willowcreek church in chicago, met a few there came from india and were trying to remain here for a few weeks.
+3
a. s. mathew (August 30, 2013)
fact: brother, let me write one personal experience of my life and then come to the conclusion. a few years back, i got a call one monday from the american airlines station manager robin, sam this minister from your country has a flight only on wednesday from chicago to delhi. we can put him a hotel but he has to pay and he has no money, can you help him. he was from salem, tamil nadu. i called my tamil nadu friend who is a catholic-very hospitable and he opened his home to entertain the new arrival. i got him from the airport, took him to eat and dropped at my friend's home. his employee took the minister to a prayer meeting and one rich lady gave him a fairly good donation. altogether, when he left on wednesday, he got a good amount from different sources, also one lap top computer (used) from my friend. when i took him from the airport, he was constantly grumbling that it was his first visit and he will not come back again to the u.s. contd:2
fact: brother, let me write one personal experience of my life and then come to the conclusion. a few years back, i got a call one monday from the american airlines station manager robin, sam this minister from your country has a flight only on wednesday from chicago to delhi. we can put him a hotel but he has to pay and he has no money, can you help him. he was from salem, tamil nadu. i called my tamil nadu friend who is a catholic-very hospitable and he opened his home to entertain the new arrival. i got him from the airport, took him to eat and dropped at my friend's home. his employee took the minister to a prayer meeting and one rich lady gave him a fairly good donation. altogether, when he left on wednesday, he got a good amount from different sources, also one lap top computer (used) from my friend. when i took him from the airport, he was constantly grumbling that it was his first visit and he will not come back again to the u.s. contd:2
+3
a. s. mathew (August 30, 2013)
FACT: It is the duty of every believer to take care of those people who are engaged in the Lord's ministry. We are blessed not to consume for ourselves, but be a blessings to the suffering people. There are hundreds of Ministers all across India, especially in north India struggling to pay the bills-hungry and no money for them to send the children to study. If we are not helping them financially, we are accountable to GOD. But some have taken the U.S. visitation ministry in every turn possible and get money to have a royal-prosperity lifestyle in India; that must be checked. A few have adopted the ministry as a pure business. If the Ministers are not happy with a Maruthi car for the ministry but focusing on Toyota
minivan with greater comfort, we need not have to be more generous. If the visiting Ministers are coming once in three/four years, that is fine, but trying to visit more often without undertaking any solid ministry in India, that must be checked properly.
FACT: It is the duty of every believer to take care of those people who are engaged in the Lord's ministry. We are blessed not to consume for ourselves, but be a blessings to the suffering people. There are hundreds of Ministers all across India, especially in north India struggling to pay the bills-hungry and no money for them to send the children to study. If we are not helping them financially, we are accountable to GOD. But some have taken the U.S. visitation ministry in every turn possible and get money to have a royal-prosperity lifestyle in India; that must be checked. A few have adopted the ministry as a pure business. If the Ministers are not happy with a Maruthi car for the ministry but focusing on Toyota
minivan with greater comfort, we need not have to be more generous. If the visiting Ministers are coming once in three/four years, that is fine, but trying to visit more often without undertaking any solid ministry in India, that must be checked properly.
+3
fact (August 30, 2013)
how much money our american malayalis waste for food,dress and holidays, most of them travel in posh cars and stay is grand houses, Its good God Blessed them all, But why to cry,and shout like all this,when you have to give a 50 dollar to a pastor, from india,
how much money our american malayalis waste for food,dress and holidays, most of them travel in posh cars and stay is grand houses, Its good God Blessed them all, But why to cry,and shout like all this,when you have to give a 50 dollar to a pastor, from india,
+3
a. s. mathew (August 29, 2013)
brother tommy, thazayil: you are pointing fingers at an important issue. when i talked with some ministers in india, they were too busy with their ministry;(some of them told me to call back later on due to their very busy schedule) 40 days fasting-street evangelism-baptism, besides the multiple abuse they get from the rss/vhp etc. but when they get an opening to visit the u.s., someway, they want to remain here for the maximum duration, and gradually shifting the vision gear to the new gear "prosperity gospel". next year some unexpected call will come from another part of the country in the u.s. from the same person. some others will show up twice a year for attending conferences of different electronic preachers, then take a vacation. jesus said the fields are white unto harvest, and the best harvest field is the "u.s. field; then the oil fields of the opec nations". north india and africa are now in the waiting list! find out and help the poor and needy ministers.
brother tommy, thazayil: you are pointing fingers at an important issue. when i talked with some ministers in india, they were too busy with their ministry;(some of them told me to call back later on due to their very busy schedule) 40 days fasting-street evangelism-baptism, besides the multiple abuse they get from the rss/vhp etc. but when they get an opening to visit the u.s., someway, they want to remain here for the maximum duration, and gradually shifting the vision gear to the new gear "prosperity gospel". next year some unexpected call will come from another part of the country in the u.s. from the same person. some others will show up twice a year for attending conferences of different electronic preachers, then take a vacation. jesus said the fields are white unto harvest, and the best harvest field is the "u.s. field; then the oil fields of the opec nations". north india and africa are now in the waiting list! find out and help the poor and needy ministers.
+3
a. s. mathew (August 28, 2013)
victory of unity! god wants us to be bridge-builders and not all wall builders; that is devil's sneaky enterprise to create split everywhere. jesus said 'love one another' that is bridge-building. inspiring news to read.
victory of unity! god wants us to be bridge-builders and not all wall builders; that is devil's sneaky enterprise to create split everywhere. jesus said 'love one another' that is bridge-building. inspiring news to read.
+3
jtatlanta (August 28, 2013)
yes mr. rajan ariyappally it's true all god's people must be united and support the real gospel where it's being preached and followed. i belive that's why many people came to the annual convention of atlanta ipc. i also believe one of the end time revival is started from our church that because we all kept some of the commandments of god, not the rumours of ungodly men around the world. so far one of the pastor from tn state said to me two times that u fellows must keep the unity regardless of any kind of differences until the 2nd coming of christ. i said to him "the second place these kind of revival must be start in tn state" he laughed at me any way god bless him for his good comments and mind. many people asked the video of the convention but the guest pastor doesn't like anybody to take the video. some asked why beljourn put some pics of the convention. the 2nd day some people and my self was standing most of the time because there is no chair to sit down. god b u all!!!.
yes mr. rajan ariyappally it's true all god's people must be united and support the real gospel where it's being preached and followed. i belive that's why many people came to the annual convention of atlanta ipc. i also believe one of the end time revival is started from our church that because we all kept some of the commandments of god, not the rumours of ungodly men around the world. so far one of the pastor from tn state said to me two times that u fellows must keep the unity regardless of any kind of differences until the 2nd coming of christ. i said to him "the second place these kind of revival must be start in tn state" he laughed at me any way god bless him for his good comments and mind. many people asked the video of the convention but the guest pastor doesn't like anybody to take the video. some asked why beljourn put some pics of the convention. the 2nd day some people and my self was standing most of the time because there is no chair to sit down. god b u all!!!.
+3
tommy,thazayil. (August 27, 2013)
It is a blessing that we get lot of visiting pastors.As we hear every
week same type of messages from our local pastors,it is ablessing these guest pastors. We are getting new messages from guests.If they come one or two time it is OK bur don't let them come every year and go back and live very luxuries life.Consider pastors those who are very poor and give some everybody. Some smart beleivers they even not willing to say a word to them because they are not willing to give .
It is a blessing that we get lot of visiting pastors.As we hear every
week same type of messages from our local pastors,it is ablessing these guest pastors. We are getting new messages from guests.If they come one or two time it is OK bur don't let them come every year and go back and live very luxuries life.Consider pastors those who are very poor and give some everybody. Some smart beleivers they even not willing to say a word to them because they are not willing to give .
+3
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Can someone highlight on son called Grace Theology doctrines as it is very confusing one.